Homosexual Scouts

[BrentAllen]

What does your CO say? How do they feel?

[Stosh]

http://www.lacrossetribune.com/news/opinion/editorial/columnists/article_7f447b54-4e6f-11df-b6af-001cc4c002e0.html

 

This is the article that came out a month or so after his EBOR.

 

The Council is aware of the situation and has handled concerns from others directly.

 

The boy was at the last troop meeting. I'm thinking he's just hanging around until his ECOH and then he's gone. He has not signed up for National Jamboree nor summer camp this summer.

 

Stosh

[Lisabob]

After reading this article, I am left with uncertainty about an individual's orientation. This sentence: "The annual GALAXY ball for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning teens..." indicates that not everyone there is necessarily gay. Additionally, the photo appears to show some boys and girls dancing together. Maybe some of the attendees are there in support of their friends.

 

Another question - suppose that the article had been written almost entirely as-is, but omitting the words "boy scouts" in the second paragraph (which is really just a throw-away and not the main point of the article at all). If the article had only been about a prom for kids who aren't or might not be hetero, would this current flap occur? Or is it that the author specifically mentioned "boy scouts" (albeit in passing)?

 

But, suppose for a moment that this boy is most definitely, 100% certain that he is gay, or bi, or transgender, or whatever. In scouting, he is still a "youth" and so I stand by my original post, in terms of how scouts should treat him.

 

Even setting that aside, though: He has been a scout for how many years? He has earned Eagle? Based on how you have described your troop program in the past, Stosh, I must suppose that you, or other adult volunteers, have seen much to admire in this boy. You have taught him, you've been mentors and role models to him. You've acknowledged his achievements as a young man and a leader, himself.

 

At the very minimum, you now owe this boy the courtesy of a very quiet, supportive, discussion about his plans, post-Eagle, in scouting. You don't know whether he intends to leave once he gets his award? Why don't you know this? Ask him. Don't bring up the sexuality issue, just have a friendly SM conference about his future expectations.

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

Stosh,

 

I read the article - I'm assuming the named 16 year old is the Scout in question. I searched and searched the article for any mention of the lads sexual orientation or for any quote by the lad that he is gay. I suppose I can keep searching till the moon turns pink but I'm pretty sure I'll never find an admission by the lad in the paper that he is gay, straight, lesbian, bi-sexual, transgendered or questioning.

 

Any assumption of the lads sexual orientation is yours and the other folks who read the newspaper article. Of course, the assumption may be true - but absent any admission, it is still just an assumption on other's parts.

 

As Scouter's we don't ask Scouts what their sexual orientation is - even when faced with a newspaper article like this.

 

So now the question on what to do becomes easy to answer: You hold this lads Eagle Court of Honor, celebrate his life thus far in Scouts, and if he decides to leave Scouts, mourn his leaving but take pride in knowing that you've done a fine job in instilling the positive values of the Boy Scouts in another young man, and wish him well with his life, and offer support for his future struggles.

 

Surely, you all know this lad and found him to be a good kid who deserved the Eagle Scout award - and if he someday does decide to "come out" and that changes your opinion, I think some serious soul searching should be done by those who now want to abandon the lad.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Hmmm.

 

I'm assuming that the Eagle Scout in question is the Nathaniel (age 16) in this article. If that's the case, I don't see him "touting" anything. The article (which is actually labeled an opinion column, though I don't see anything in it beyond reporting of the facts, using very careful language) does not say the young man is gay, though it certainly does imply it. Nathaniel is not directly quoted in the article at all. His paraphrased statements are about how he has met new people in this group and his life has "changed" with the support of his friends. He's not saying "Ha ha, I fooled the Boy Scouts." The only mention of Boy Scouts is a statement by the reporter based on an apparently overheard conversation.

 

I certainly don't see anything here that makes Nathanial a bad role model. He's just a teenager being honest, and not even saying anything specific or offensive to anybody. Then again, I don't support the anti-gay policy anyway. But even if we accept the policy for purposes of discussion, I don't necessarily think this kid has "violated" it. He attended a dance with a person identified only as his "friend", though based on the circumstances one can fill in the blanks. He won the unfortunately-named "Fairy of the Ball" award (well, it's only unfortunate because a newspaper reporter was there.) Is he, based on what it says in this article, an "avowed homosexual"? I'm not sure. We know he's probably gay, because he did not attempt to hide the fact that he was there, and gave the reporter his real name. But does the BSA really have a policy that throws people out because they fail to hide, even if they don't actually say anything that indicates they are violating the policy?

 

I guess my question is, even if one accepts the policy, what has this kid done to deserve getting thrown out of anything? And my other question is, jblake, why would you say he is "touting his orientation" based on what it says in this article?

[NJCubScouter]

Well, I didn't see Lisabob's and CalicoPenn's posts before I hit "send" on mine, but obviously I agree with them. I don't think you even have to be an opponent of "the policy" to question whether this young man has done anything to result in him being kicked out of Scouting.

[Bando]

BDPT100, when you say "It seems clear to me that he wants to play political football with my organization," there are many of us who disagree with BSA policy who would say the exact same thing to you.

 

Lisabob is 100% correct here. He is, as far as the BSA is concerned, asexual.

[bacchus]

I read the article and it sure doesn't sound to me like he is openly gay. We could all take a lesson from HIM and be more tolerant of others. Even (especially) when they don't believe the same way we do.

 

Also, whether he is openly gay or not, I believe the real question should actually be whether he is acting on it. I'm not going there. Who are we to interview a youth about his sexuality? Especially if he hasn't brought it up?

 

I'm proud of him for earning his Eagle.

[DanKroh]

It certainly is interesting reading the snap assumptions that people make about this young man.

 

First, jblake says the boy is "touting his orientation". I expected an article about how he spoke at a rally concerning gay rights, sued his school to attend his prom with a same-sex date, or some such. But instead, he was interviewed while attending a dance with a friend (of unspecified gender). Perhaps the young man isn't gay at all, but transgender.

 

BDPT is ready to label him as having "an agenda" and "play[ing] political football with my organization", not to mention disloyal, untrustworthy, and a coward. All because he attended a dance and talked to a reporter there. Wow.

 

OGE somehow questions if the young man is "marketing his homosexual adventures". Where did *that* come from? Unfortunately OGE, gays who even take up the cause of equality are branded by some people as "flaunting their sexuality", even though many who support equality for gays are not themselves gay, so I've never quite understood that one either.

 

Unfortunately, I can't say I'm terribly surprised by some of these responses. Terribly saddened, absolutely; but surprised, no.

 

The young man should be congratulated, and frankly, I can't blame him if he's not interested in sticking around *if* he has gotten a similar reception from his troop.

[OldGreyEagle]

Dan, take a deep breathe, my comments were made long before the link to the newspaper was placed.

 

I was commenting based on the available information at the time

 

I read the line "...he has since made the newspaper touting his orientation " and that was the basis for my comment "one marketing his homosexual adventures."

 

The newspaper article is not near as incendiary as I was first lead to beleive(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[DanKroh]

"Dan, take a seep breathe, my comments were made long before the link to the newspaper was placed.

I was commenting based on the available information at the time

The newspaper article is not near as incendiary as I was first lead to believe"

 

No need for a deep breath, OGE, I realize your comment was made before the article was provided. But I find the leap from "touting his orientation" to "marketing his homosexual adventures" to be just a bit jarring (and this was one of the comments I *did* find surprising).

[Stosh]

This news article is the only thing public I could publish on the forum. His Facebook issues and comments are not for publishing on a public forum. I have however, left him as friend, but blocked his posts.

 

The "friend" in the article is my other Eagle Scout, his best friend. He is the one I consulted when I was alerted to the article in the first place. His "friend" is now an adult and is having difficulty being a friend and an adult scouter. He sought my advice as to whether or not this scout was being cyber-bullied by other scouts and seems torn and upset by the tack his friend is taking.

 

This whole thing has turned into Peyton Place.

 

Stosh

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

it was meant as a hyperbolictical statement, sorry it didnt come off that way

[NJCubScouter]

So Stosh, you are saying the "friend" mentioned in the article is not gay? He just went to this dance out of friendship for Nathaniel? This really makes me question the whole article, because this writer seems be implying things that are not true, and perhaps to be making other questionable implications. In fact the whole article seems dicey to me. Why is she publishing these kids' names? (Well I guess it is just the one who is under 18.) Did she get his parents' permission? He has not done anything newsworthy. He went to a dance, and now his privacy is being invaded. I see nothing that confirms that he is openly gay.

 

Now you say there is other stuff on Facebook, but you don't even hint about what it says. It's difficult to know what to believe here; before you posted the article you said he "made the newspaper touting his orientation", which turns out not to be the case.

 

And anyway, if the council already knows about it, I am sure they will handle it in the same sensitive and fair way that councils always handle things. (Sarcasm off) Either the wheels are already in motion to "do something", or they're not.

[Beavah]

Yah, I reckon there's enough drama in teenagers' lives without adults adding to it. Sometime before they start lookin' for a job I hope the lads learn to be a bit more circumspect about what they post on Facebook to the world, but mostly that's just teen drama, too. My favorites are the geeky white boys who play "gangsta" on Facebook. English teachers also tell me that yeh have to read student journals with a healthy grain of salt (or shot of Tequila or somesuch ).

 

So don't add to da drama. If this merits anything, it's probably a quiet, supportive conversation with the lad. I've met more than one 16 year old who has declared himself to be gay, (and others who are atheist, and ...) only to go to college, find a wife, and be happily hetero. And some that go da other way, too. At that age, lots of kids don't know; they just have worries and questions. And drama, always drama.

 

So don't do the drama (have I said that enough times yet? ). Just be a Scoutmaster to the kid.

 

Beavah