Homosexual Scouts

[Stosh]

Okay, if it's not allowed to be a homosexual scouter in the BSA program, what happens to the homosexual Eagle scout? Is he expected to leave the program as well?

 

Stosh

[Lisabob]

I know better than to answer this and I'm not going to get drawn into long discussions. But here goes.

 

In a scouting context, youth are to be considered asexual. Scouts are youth, while sexual matters are those of adults. Thus, an Eagle scout who is under the age of 18, is still a youth and therefore we do not inquire into his eventual sexual orientation. We treat him like we treat any youth.

 

 

[CA_Scouter]

OK, what's the real story? Spill the beans Stosh!

 

 

[Stosh]

That is the situation I am faced with at the present time. Up until his passed his EBOR nothing was said. Once he got the nod for Eagle, he has since made the newspaper touting his orientation and there are those who are questioning the whole process and what to do with it.

 

Stosh

[BDPT00]

I agree with Lisabob. Considering them asexual is an interesting way to say it.

The Scout in question is exactly why this whole thing is an issue. He's now going to make his sexuality a news item, and he's going to scream bloody murder when BSA asks him to step aside.

My one simple question is: what's his agenda?

It seems clear to me that he wants to play political football with my organization. If he liked Scouting as much as I do, it would be a non-issue. He's made a choice (to me, frankly, he's made another choice), and he'll have to learn to live with it. It's too bad he feels no Loyalty to BSA, and it's too bad that he was probabaly less than Trustworthy and/or Brave in his quest to become an Eagle Scout.

My concern now is for the Scouts with whom he comes in contact.

BDPT00

[qwazse]

We haven't had to deal with this issue, but in general our rule to the press or anyone from the outside is refer them to our council. If they don't have a scout who wants to join or a service we can perform for our community, we don't want to talk to them. We tow this line and only make public statments if expressly requested to do so by the scout and his family.

 

Regarding the boy, he's a member of the troop until 18 (or a crew until 21). Beyond that he has to decide between his lifestyle and scouting. (Sounds like our loss.)

 

Though offered, a portion of our 18 year olds (orientation unkown) turn down the opportunity to be ASM. I wonder what they would think if we flat-out denied them?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

How is he not Loyal? Is he expected to change his sexual orientation to be "loyal"?

How is he not Trustworthy? As far as I can tell from the BSA's myriad unwritten rules, it's OK for a youth member to be gay.

How is he not Brave? You think it's easy to come out as gay at his age?

[OldGreyEagle]

I agree with the stance Boy Socuts are to be viewed as asexual. Unless of course they are married, which can happen before a young man reaches 18.

 

A boy bragging about his heterosexual exploits is not much different from the one marketing his homosexual adventures. Unless married they are both unscoutlike.

 

Of course, if the gay scout is married in a state that allows same, my argument starts to fall apart a little, well ok, a lot but that doesnt seem to be the issue here.

 

Living the Scout Law is still required, what do you do? What did he say ?

[NJCubScouter]

The policy regarding leaders only applies to "avowed homosexuals", so based on jblake's first post, Lisabob was correct that there was no indication that "the policy" even comes into play. However, based on the second post indicating that the Eagle Scout has openly announced his orientation and it has been reported in the newspaper, it now appears that he is "openly gay" or in the BSA's words, an "avowed homosexual." I'd be curious to know what exactly he said, and with newspaper reports there is always a question of accuracy, but for purposes of discussion I think we have to assume that he is now openly gay. And I take it that you are talking about a Scout who made Eagle and is still under 18 and still an active Scout.

 

I am not aware of any policy of the BSA that requires you to do anything in this situation. I am pretty sure there is nothing about it in the Scoutmaster's Handbook, the G2SS or the YP Guidelines, and while I am not aware of every statement in every training module, I tend to doubt it's covered there either. There are certain things you can do if you want, but I am not sure what the outcome would be. Several years ago there was a mention in this forum of what the BSA's official position was on youth members who state that they are gay, and it was not exactly the same as the policy regarding leaders. There was something about counseling to find out whether they really mean they are gay, or something like that. The implication was that if they persist in being "openly gay" after being given a chance to "take it back", then their membership would be terminated. Whether that is now or ever was really the "policy", I don't know. And if it really is the "policy", then simply removing the youth from the unit (assuming no misbehavior within the unit) would not seem appropriate.

 

Added note: I searched both this forum and Google to try to find what I was thinking of from years ago, but I don't remember enough of the words used for a search to produce a meaningful result.(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[perdidochas]

I agree with Lisabob's answer.

[Horizon]

"Boy Scouts of America believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed. The conduct of youth members must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law, and membership in Boy Scouts of America is contingent upon the willingness to accept Scouting's values and beliefs. Most boys join Scouting when they are 10 or 11 years old. As they continue in the program, all Scouts are expected to take leadership positions. In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position."

 

This is the policy statement I have seen before. So our Eagle Scout can remain in Scouting, but he can not hold a POR!

[NJCubScouter]

Horizon, I have seen all or part of that statement before, but I am not sure where it comes from. Where did you get it? It really does not sound like an official pronouncement of BSA National to me. But let's assume (or pretend) for a minute that it is the official policy. In the case of jblake's Scout who makes Eagle and then becomes "openly" gay, it would mean that he could stay in the troop, he'd still be Eagle, but he could not hold a POR. Of course, for purposes of rank, he doesn't need a POR anymore. Could he earn palms? One of the requirements is: "Make a satisfactory effort to develop and demonstrate leadership ability." It doesn't say you have to have a POR, but what Horizon quoted does make one wonder whether the openly gay Eagle Scout would be permitted to "demonstrate leadership ability" within the troop.

 

Personally I think this is all academic because I have serious doubts about whether Horizon's quotation is the actual policy.(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[Troop24]

Hey BDPT00 when did Scouting become your organization? I thought it was all about the kids and not about the adults! I have been following other threads on here recently about awards and such that seemed to be leaning that way a least. FWIW homosexuality is not a choice.

 

just sayin'

[BadenP]

Stosh

All I can say is let it alone the boy passed his EBOR and has been deemed to have finished all the requirements for Eagle before he "came out" so to speak. The rules of the BSA cut both ways, he followed them all and has been awarded the Eagle. If you try to deny him now the chaos and bad publicity resulting would only severely hurt the BSA. Let him receive his award and he will probably leave scouting on his own,and the whole incident will be forgotten, case closed.

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

The simplest thing to do is to toss the the problem in your council's lap. Do they have a problem with the publicity? Has there been any guidance from them?

 

If you feel that he has been deceitful and had giving BSA a problem as a goal all along, don't recognize him as an Eagle Scout within your troop. If you maintain an eagle Honor Roll plaque, don't include him. There is little else that you can do!