LDS BSA Relationship

[GernBlansten]

Gary,

While I will agree with you that the LDS charters the most units, they are not the majority of registered scouts by a long shot. This is one of my pet peeves. The power of the LDS is exaggerated due to the voting structure of the BSA charter orgs and the way the LDS charters every ward. Now if the LDS consolidated several wards into one larger unit the size of a typical non-LDS unit in the region, the disparity of power would not exist.

[skeptic]

Possibly this would be a lesser concern if the other CO's actually bothered to vote. In my experience, almost nobody votes in reality, except the actual executive board members. Unless someone gets out there and pushes the COR's to actually do their jobs, that will not change, unfortunately. This does on rare occasion happen, but usually only when someone gets peeved enough to wrangle the voters to respond.

 

 

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters,

 

Greetings!

 

 

If I may comment on Eagle92 and Gary_Miller's, dialogue.

 

From my own experience as a trainer and commissioner. Ive had many friends that are of the LDS faith, as well as friends of many other denominations.

 

I have never seen a perfect unit . I've visited Catholic, Methodist, and community-based troops that were top notch and others that were doing just half the job and barely advancing.

 

While visited LDS sponsored troops; Ive witnessed nearly perfect, uniformed, 7 parts of a meeting, patrol meetings, skills development, advancement and learning actually in progress. I have also witnessed troop meetings where no youth showed up. Only adults. And these werent committee meetings, they were weekly troop meetings.

 

Ive had LDS friends, whom it seemed never came in from the woods. The next edition of the BSA Fieldbook should have their picture on it. Ive praised their work, and commented how their troops are performing with quality programs and advancements. And Ive met LDS acquaintances during their troop meetings that you would never guess that they were the Scoutmaster.

 

Some LDS friends tell me its the calling that they are concerned with. Ive been told by a few LDS friends, that they jockey for position, hoping to be called into Scouting. They are excited about Scouting, and just hoping their Bishop calls them to serve the LDS as a Scoutmaster /Assistant Scoutmaster. In those troops that Ive visited, they have a program, they camp, the attend events, their participation is just tremendous. These friends are the right person at the right time; for their church and their troop.

 

My LDS Scouting friends have also stated, that the Bishop(s) sometimes are not concerned with skills, and some apathetic adults will be called into Scouting, while parents with boys will be called into other service. Meanwhile, Ive wondered how a pickup game basketball player can earn Eagle (and earn the Camping Merit Badge) if he has never camped for even one night.

 

From my personal visits. There are some high performing LDS sponsored troops out there, I highly admire their work and their enthusiasm towards the program. And also from my visits, there seem to be an equal amount of LDS sponsored troops that are in name only.

 

My gut feeling, it is the way the LDS Scout leaders are selected. Some LDS Scout leaders are born Scouters and bleed green and khaki, they are awesome Scout leaders period (enough said about those guys). And then, some truly talented and caring adults (whom potentially would be great Scout leaders) may be serving in some other capacity; while an apathetic adult (Scoutmaster) is watching a basketball game week after week. No opening, no closing, nothing else. Just walk in and play basketball.

 

I do think the LDS should (of course) continue their relationship with the BSA. That is without question. I do however sincerely ask, that the Bishops or COR select quality leaders every time and not just half the time, to fill their leadership roles.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[Eagle92]

Crew,

110% DEAD ON!

[jhankins]

Well said, Crew.

[NJCubScouter]

jhankins says:

 

In 2008, President Neider of the General YM Presidency instructed the church leaders here and all the pros that all youth members to age 17 will be registered in Scouting, active or not.

 

Can you explain what that means, that they "will be registered"? A parent's signature is required on the youth membership application. What if the parent doesn't sign the application? The youth can't be registered then, right?

[BadenP]

LDS units, at least in the councils I have been affiliated with, are registered by the LDS stake on rosters, taken from the stakes membership files, both youth and adult leaders, not individual app's. The stake then sends in one check to cover all the registration fees. There have been cases where boys have been registered for years and have never shown up for a meeting. It is another difference between LDS and regular scouting.

[BadenP]

(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[BadenP]

(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[Gary_Miller]

BadenP, in some councils the stake will give the council a roster of youth so they can check to see that everyone registered. After all at council level its all about the number.

 

However, there still needs to be an individual application filled out for each boy.

[Gary_Miller]

GernBlansten, "While I will agree with you that the LDS charters the most units, they are not the majority of registered scouts by a long shot. This is one of my pet peeves"

 

If you check your facts from last years annual report. You will find that not only does the LDS have the largest number of units, they also have the largest number of registered youth.

 

I will say though by proportion of units and youth. The United Methodist Church has more youth in comparison to then number of units. I think I said that right.

 

Here the link.

 

http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/operating_orgs.aspx

[GernBlansten]

I stand corrected Gary.

I wonder if the United Methodists enrolled every boy of scouting age like LDS do without regard to the boys interest in scouting, if they would be the 800 lbs gorilla?

[Gary_Miller]

Could be I don't know much about the UM Church and how they use scouting.

 

But as far as the LDS Church using scouting as the activity arm for their YM ages 8-18. Can you think of a better program to use?

[BadenP]

Gary

On paper the LDS may have the most registered youth, however, the reality is that upwards of 40% or more of them are not active or even participating in scouting. My LDS friend is a good example his two boys are registered boy scouts, and he is a registered ASM but he personally, as well as his boys, have no interest in scouting whatsoever so they do not go or participate in any activities. In my experience as a DE the LDS units in my districts were always the smallest, the average being 5-6 active boys for boy scouts and 10-11 in cubs. So what may look good on paper are in reality "ghost scouts", which the LDS stakes pay for year after year so they look good in Salt Lake. My LDS friends tell me that this is a fairly common occurance throughout the country. I am curious to hear your take on this.

[Gary_Miller]

BP, I agree that there is a large number on paper that don't attend any meetings at all. A couple of years ago Pres Delquest then General YM president said that the church was losing 70% of their YM by the time they turn 16. Just like Scout Troops we lose them to other interests or they just no longer want to attend. Pres. Delquest placed the blame on the lack of good scouting units at the ward level and encouraged the local leaders to select men to scouting leader positions who have a 1)Testimony of the church. 2)Time to do the program. 3)Trained in the program. and 4)Tenure, and he spelled Tenure, TEN YEAR. I think he was right in order to retain YM there must be a good unit program in order to have a good program, a unit need strong leaders who are dedicated to the program and the youth.

 

It is also my experience that most YM who say they don't like scouting is because they have never really experienced a properly ran scouting program. What they have experienced is a program centered around earning MBs. If a unit has a good program centered on the purpose and aims of scouting. YM will come be cause it will be fun.

 

As for ghost scouts. I really don't think the number is a high as some would like to believe. For instance in our just in our YM program (12-18) we only have 2 YM who on our charter who don't come to any meetings including church on Sunday.While some units may have more I think for the most part LDS units don't charter them if they don't come at all. For the most part since the charter and registration fees are paid out of moneys from tithe payers most Bishops and Stake Presidents try to be good stewards and would not register a youth who is not attending any meeting.

 

As for Stakes looking good with the numbers of registered scouts I don't know of that number ever being reported to Church Head Quarters at the ward or stake level.