NASA - Moneyhole!

[Mr. Boyce]

I think this whole "hey, we're gonna get great new technology out of this!" sounds a bit like we're expecting Christmas or Superman or something.

 

It's an unproven assertion. But it's nice to see optimism. And is there any guarantee that the nifty new toys are worth all that cost?

 

[NJCubScouter]

Guarantee, Mr. Boyce? I seem to recall someone saying that the only things that are certain are death and taxes. Other than that, there are no guarantees of anything. If we wait until something is absolutely guaranteed before taking action, we never do anything.

[SSScout]

You are right in that there are many important problems here on our Big Blue Marble to solve. I'll not list all of my choices here.

But Humans have always sought new places to go and see. True, Francis Drake and Eric the Red were not merely tourists out for a "new" experience, but the inherent desire is there: to "Go and See". (where did I hear that?)

It is not enough to send robots to send back pretty pictures. As I get older, I like the idea of knowing that someONE has been there. Many moon ago, as I led my then young son thru our park, I noticed the NEED in him to go and climb and look under things and ask questions. True, most of the places he wants to go now, some other human ( a whole lot of humans) has been there first, but the desire to go new places is still there.

I would much rather my grandson go to Mars than to a battle front in a unsettled corner of our world. Can we not help bring calm and peace where there is now death and strife so our wealth can be used to explore and "go and see" ?

 

You want to see a "moneyhole"? I'll point you to my brother-in-law's sailboat!

 

[sherminator505]

I wonder if going to Mars is a worthwhile venture at this point given that we are retiring the shuttle and do not yet have a proven viable substitute. I have heard talk of private ventures taking up the slack, but I have yet to see it. Granted, there are some companies that are working on "space tourism," but as of today I have not seen any of these private ventures, say, visit ISS. Until this happens, I maintain the opinion that we shouldn't be talking about pie-in-the-sky ventures until we have addressed the technological gaps that currently exist!

[Kahuna]

"You want to see a "moneyhole"? I'll point you to my brother-in-law's sailboat!"

 

How about congressional salaries, benefits and expenses? If they had to live on the same budgets as small businesses, we could afford to go to another galaxy.

 

BTW, whoever said a boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into got it right.

[Scoutfish]

Having owned several boats over the years.....It is true! Owning a boat is owning a moneyhole!

 

The two greatest days of a boat owners life are the day you buy the boat and the day you sell it!

[nolesrule]

That's the problem with moving toward relying on commercial ventures. It's better to have a vision and then contract out to meet your requirements than have to rely on existing capabilities of commercial enterprises.

 

There have been 2 or 3 commercial-based manned spaceflights, both a few years back, and they were shorter than Alan Sheppard's flight back in 1961.

[gcnphkr]

I disagree with our going to Mars at this point in time. It is a silly next step. The Moon is simpler with more immediate benefits. Then with materials mined on the Moon we can set up at L4 or L5, then we might want to start for Mars.

 

Resources, knowledge and lebensraum--the sooner we get at least one egg out of this basket the better.

[Scoutfish]

 

 

That's not a money hole, that's an indefinant vacuum!

[Kahuna]

"That's not a money hole, that's an indefinant vacuum"

 

Or maybe a black hole?

[SSScout]

It all seemed so simple, once upon a time...

 

Walt Disney and Werner Von Braun,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRCQ2Cu3bSE&feature=related

 

 

[JoeBob]

Merylyn and BrklynEagle touched upon why I think we need to go to Mars.

 

GPS. And other satellites.

 

If the US does not target NASA at a specific goal, such as Mars, we risk being pushed out of space by the Chinese. A robotic killer satellite could disable or 'arrange to malfunction' our existing and future satellites. Then the Chinese could charge whatever fee they wished for us to have access to replacement Chinese satellite services.

The US could never go to war against an entity that controls our navigation. Cruise missiles would miss their targets, airplanes would get lost, hurricanes would again become unpredictable; and without spy satellites, we would be blind to what is going on in other parts of the world.

 

If we are not as strong a presence in space as the Chinese are, then we will have lost the future. To consciously decide not be a strong presence in space is national suicide.

[Vicki]

Jet's right - "I disagree with our going to Mars at this point in time. It is a silly next step. The Moon is simpler with more immediate benefits. Then with materials mined on the Moon we can set up at L4 or L5, then we might want to start for Mars.

 

Resources, knowledge and lebensraum--the sooner we get at least one egg out of this basket the better." Read Robert Heinlein and Arthur C. Clarke.

 

So is JoeBob - thinking about China makes this paranoid's skin crawl. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. Heinlein again - in Moon is a Harsh Mistress, a war is won simply by using Earth's gravity well to pitch rocks from the moon. Sounds very efficiently Chinese in today's world.

 

Vicki

 

[Mike F]

Mr. Boyce asked a few days ago about guarantees of future technology/payoffs worth the cost. Nope youll never get these guarantees which is exactly why this is the type of fundamental research and investment our government should be doing. No company can risk shareholders investments on such long-range speculation. In my mind, the Federal Government should be concentrating on things which only it can do, like national defense and NASA.

 

I wouldnt get too worked up about the race to Mars. The moon is only 3 days away. Mars is about 8 months away and orders of magnitude more difficult, which will require a lot of new technology in systems (water, air, food) and medicine (radiation protection, bone/muscle strength, etc). These are long term projects with obvious spin-offs here. However, as of right now, all we have pointing us to Mars are some very generic words in a speech. There is no program or specific instructions behind the words. Just more words in a speech. As the echoes of these words fade away, the trickle of brilliant minds departing is accelerating.

 

By the way, I wouldnt worry too much about us spending money in space, on the moon, or on Mars. All of our space-related money for the foreseeable future will be spent on Earth. Current NASA budget is less than of a penny from your tax dollar. Compared to the payback we get from most of the rest of that tax dollar, its a bargain.

 

A sobering thought:

The images of Apollo and todays images of Space Shuttle launches make profound statements around the world. Our space program is a symbol of our national power and technical prowess. It is surprising how often you can see these images on television and billboards in other countries around the world. America is big and it is bold and it does amazing things which others can only dream about. As we send the Space Shuttle Orbiters to museums and cancel the follow-on program, we cede human spaceflight to Russia and China. As an insult, we have to buy seats for our astronauts from the Russians in order to use the space station which was largely funded by US tax dollars and is only now shifting into full research utilization mode. Its looking more and more like America is willingly stepping back to join our British brothers as former world leaders. As a nation, we are not going to like reacting to rather than shaping world events.

 

[BadenP]

NASA has always had on the burner after the moon to go to Mars and eventually beyond, and many good reasons why have already been posted. As the economy gets better we need to keep the program going. As to funding, cut all US Senators and Representatives staffs by 2/3, and their junkets by 2/3, you want to talk about a waste of money there it is. All they do is argue, accomplish very little, and always manage to vote for their own pay raises each year, and waste taxpayers money in the process. I am convinced allowing Asia or Russia, or anyone else to surpass us in the space program will have long lasting negative effects on our economy, political standing in the world, and our countrys safety and freedom.