NASA - Moneyhole!

[Scoutfish]

So I read the headline today: Associated Press Obama: US to Mars within his lifetime.

 

WOW! Is anybody as excited as I am?

 

What a total and complete waste of taxpayer money!

Now look...I am a fan of science and I am a fan of learning. I'm also a fan of l;earning more science.

 

But seriously...what benefit will "one day hopefully" reaching Mars provide?

 

Right now, we know that there is a "pretty good chance" that there "used to be" water on Mars, but we don't know for sure. So lets spend a couple billion each quarter and maybe, if we spend even more..one day we MIGHT find out.

 

But then what? Right now, we don't go to the moon. It's not practical either. Why would it be? Any of ytou plan on moving to the moon? Plan on a colony anytime soon? Nah... me either. Wouldn't be practical!

 

 

Sure, NASA has put satelights for communication, weather and mapography/topography info for the world to use, as well as military uses...all great, practical, and needed.

 

I think we need to drop the big money sucking hole of exploring Jupiter, Mars,and honestly..the moon!

 

Yep, even the moon. Can we justify it in these economic times?

 

What have we found out by going to the moon that actually has real practical value?

 

Now, this is not a crack at the Obama administration by any means. I have had an issue with space exploration since I read about the expense of Hubble.

 

Yeah, it is interesting to see what happens far far away. It did send some cool pictures. It did make for great reading. But it still wasn't practical to spend that kind of money on something that isn't making a difference to us at all.

 

Just my rant for now.

[Eagle92]

Challenge is that a lot of what NASA pioneered has trickled down to everyday use. And I don't mean just Tang either. Fabrics that were created for insulating spacesuits are now used to make lightweight but ultrawarm sleeping bags and camping clothing. Food used in space are now staples in the REI, and other outdoor store (MMM beef stoganoff with noodles, just got some today for next weekend.) And it goes on and on.

[Scoutfish]

I think NASA does great stuff. Lots of technology came about because of NASA.

 

But Mars exploration? Come on! Does anybody seriously expect going to Mars to be possible or practical?

Even if man make it to Mars..how long will it take? How many decades? How much food would it take for just a crew of 3?

How much fuel, oxygen and life support?

 

Why even go? Is even considering putting a colony on Mars plausible? If the earth was in danger of burning out...would sending people to the moon or Mars even be an idea to bother with? Would it truely be worth considering?

 

If people want to daydream...that's fine, but look at the budget crises America is in right now.

 

Where does Mars really fit in on a scale of necessary things to sink billions of dollars in in a given year?

 

 

[nolesrule]

Methinks someone needs to do a little research into the benefits of manned spaceflight, past, present and future. Eagle92 has it right, and he only mentions 2 of the trickle down benefits we see in our outdoor adventures.

 

I'm not an engineer, but I do have a subscription to NASA Tech Briefs. You'd be surprised at the technology that NASA develops that then becomes available for use in non-space related fields.

 

A quick google search found this page for me, which has a decent list of advances based on NASA technology...

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

 

I have no idea the source, but I have seen it claimed in multiple places that for every $1 spent on the space program, we see $7-8 in U.S. economic benefit. If true, that's not a bad ROI. Most government programs are money down the drain.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Weather satellites have more than paid for the entire space program in lives and dollars saved. The space program is a net gain, not a net loss.

[Scoutfish]

MARS EXPLORATION!

 

PEOPLE ON MARS!

 

 

Really now... Did I not plainly say that NASA has brougght about grea stuff and has benefitted us, But NOT exploring MARS!

 

That is stupid and totally un practical. We will never live there, could not afford to send people there and the logistics of it are insane!.

 

Any penny spent on Mars is a joke!

 

 

[nolesrule]

Vision, Mission, Goals.

 

In addition the technological spinoffs, the vision will inspire people to get educated in related high tech fields or start up related support businesses. There's millions of people that went into their fields because they were inspired by a footprint on the moon 41 years ago. Or because of the launch of Columbia 29 years ago.

 

Continuing with plain old LEO is a lack of vision, which will put a throttle on both technological and economic returns as well as put a damper on that little thing called inspiration.

 

And there's nothing more amazing (except for my kids) than watching a manned space launch from my driveway. Especially at night.

[Lisabob]

We never intended to live on the moon, either. Yet, going to the moon was not only an inspirational venture; it also netted us incredible advances in all kinds of sci/tech fields. It spurred a generation of scientific research and allowed us to regain our global leadership in both military and civilian applications of that research. What makes you think that Mars would not pay off in similar ways.

 

The other thing about these sorts of programs is that they don't start and stop on a dime. Yes the economy has challenges now, but it is to be hoped that 5 years from now, things are going to be considerably different. But we can't turn off funding this year, turn it on next year, wait and see what the year after that shapes up like, etc., and expect to have a coherent scientific research agenda of any kind. Lack of stability in funding results in people not being able to commit to long term projects. That doesn't benefit anybody.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

LEO?

I'm not saying NASA is a joke. It's not. Space technology and misions are not a joke.

 

But trying to go to Mars is not practical. Neither is xploring Mars...at least not now. Thing is, what will anything we learn about Mars be benificial in a practical way?

 

 

What can we do about anything that pertains to Mars? NOTHING!

 

Matter of fact, I just read an interesting fact about the moon: It is slowly moving away at us at a rate of 1/2 inch a century! OMG! We are doomed!

 

Thing is, what are we gonna do about it? Tie an anchor to it? Design, build and plant rocket stabilizers on the moon?

 

NOPE! Never will happen.

 

Now how about Mars? Well, there is probably 100 times a greater chance we will build rockets to control the obit of the moon before we even set foot on Mars!

 

Again, I am not busting on NASA. Lots of great technology and practical stuff has come from NASA including stuff that has nothing to do with space...at least not in the way we use it.

 

But Mars? Seriously, there is a point where we have to say: well wishes and good intentions do not warrant billions a year in tax money when the economy is the way it is right now.

[Scoutfish]

LEO ?

Not talking astrological signs are you?

[GernBlansten]

I'm in the space business. Obama turning the Orion into a life raft just gave me another year or two of work. What a joke.

 

However, manned spaceflight is a folly. We were never destined for space. We simply cannot survive there and the possiblity of finding somewhere we can survive is way beyond our life spans.

 

Sure it forces some technological advances that benefit our terrestrial lives.

 

But its still a folly. We will never leave this planet permanently. We need to focus on this little ball of fuzz instead of playing Buck Rodgers.

 

The same tech advances we get from the manned space program could be achieved through an aggressive drive to energy independence. Just think if we turned the entire manned spaceflight program dollars into renewable energy research? Force innovation. De-claw the Arab oil stronghold on our economy. Become a world power in energy again.

 

Nope. Not exciting. Watching a rocket and waving a flag is much more interesting and keeps the politicians funding NASA.

[jhankins]

I hearken you back to the speech JFK made regarding space travel, and how it was used in Wood Badge for the 21st Century.

 

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard....We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all mankind....we shall send to the moon, 240,000 miles away from the control station in Houston, a giant rocket more than 300 feet tall...made of new metal alloys, some of which have not yet been invented...capable of standing heat and stresses several times more than have ever been experienced, fitted together with a precision better than the finest watch, carrying all the equipment needed for propulsion, guidance, control, communications, food and survival, on an untried mission, to an unknown celestial body... And therefore as we set sail, we ask God's blessing on the most hazardous and dangerous and greatest adventure on which man has ever embarked. "

 

Am I the only one that was stirred to a belief that it could be done, and we would achieve something great? Can you grasp the vision? Can you imagine what people were thinking about that vision back then?

 

We all need a vision, and leaders are supposed to help us capture it.

 

We have Tempurpedic beds, ceramic casserole dishes to cook in, Tang to drink, dehydrated food to eat, and so much more because of the studies done in space. Life on earth prospers from exploring what's around us.

 

[Scoutfish]

Gern,

 

Now,I'm not saying the jobs are a joke.

 

But I think we do have a common thought here: That money could be used differently. Engery research is a GREAT idea!

Maybe cancer research. Maybe improving medicine, green technology, or anything that might actually physically benefit humans.

 

Now, I do not have an issue wity the space shuttle or that area of NASA's work. Imagine what would happen if all the weather, communication and defense satillites suddenly disapperaed.

 

But the Mars thing?

 

If it can be calculated how far the moon is moving away during the next century.. not week, month or year - mind you, but the next century... why not get the guys ( you maybe?) who do those calculations.. and maybe work on environmentally green stuff and energy resources?

 

No, I'm not a tree hugger either.

 

In my personal opinion, studying to go to mars is a senseless as studying flatulence in cows and the effect on the environment.

What was the practicality in that? Did we convince cows to stop or change their diet? Did we design, build and instal bovanal filters?LOL!

 

Yeah Gern, I see myself think along the same lines as you!

[nolesrule]

LEO = Low Earth Orbit

 

"The same tech advances we get from the manned space program could be achieved through an aggressive drive to energy independence."

 

I don't know if that's necessarily the case. The technology spinoffs from manned spaceflight are likely much more diverse.

 

A friend of mine works on Orion for Lockheed out in Denver. I'm sure he's happy to have a job for a couple more years.

[GernBlansten]

We have made great advances due to the forcing of innovation that the manned space program has required.

 

I'm a big fan of scientific research and unmanned space flight is uber cool and necessary to advance our understanding of the universe. But it lacks human drama. Watching a bunch of nerds in a control room celebrate the landing of a Mars rover just doesn't do it for us.

 

Putting men in mortal danger always solicits great advances. Wars are incredible motivations to develop new drugs, weapons and life saving procedures. I bet, if you weighed the advances in technology from WW2 for 4 years to the entire NASA program of 30 plus years, I think you'd find the WW2 advances are significantly more impressive. Penicillin, turbo chargers, jet engines, nuclear bombs, sonar, radar, computers, helicopters, just to name a few. All brought to you by war.

 

Human space flight invokes the same emotions.

 

We as humans need to take the next step. Put that same energy towards more strategic earthly needs and do so without the human drama wars and space flight require. We are so creative, yet still need base emotions to motivate us properly.