1st Amendment and BSA

[Trevorum]

census, every 10 years

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

The decennial census. Also, since "The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation" this implies that the House is required to at least pay the president's salary. But yeah, I had to search for "shall"s.

[Twocubdad]

Publication of what is now the Congressional Record and the State of the Union address are constitutional requirements.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[CalicoPenn]

Recording and publishing the journals of the legislature (now the Congressional Record), paying the President's salary, giving an annual State of the Union, and Congress meeting at least one every other year aren't really programs.

[OldGreyEagle]

Scoutfish, this is from the School District where I live:

 

"It is the policy of the Bethlehem Area School District not to discriminate on the basis of race,color, national creed, age, sex, ancestry, union membership, sexual orientation, gender identity,

national origin, disability, or because the employe is a victim of a violent crime (including crimes involving domestic violence) in its educational and vocational programs, activities, or employment as required by Title VI, Title IX, Section 504."

 

Now, since this is the policy of the school district following the laws cited, how could the School District run an organization which clearly does not allow Atheists or Homosexual? They cannot discriminate based on "National Creed" (religion, or lack there of) or Sexual Orientation.

 

Read non-discrimination policy statements, they are all basically the same, what the BSA asks of Chartering Organizations cannot be done by public school districts

[evmori]

The easy way around this issues is for the BSA to change their charter method so the charter partner doesn't own the charter. Then all this is moot.

[Trevorum]

Or, the BSA could simply not discriminate against people because of their religion or sexual orientation. What a concept.

[Beavah]

Yah, so OGE....

 

If a lad's family is a recent immigrant from Vietnam, can they provide special services, tutoring support, an after school mentoring program, etc. targeted to his special needs, or would that be discrimination based on national origin because it would exclude kids whose ancestors came over on da Mayflower?

 

I also reckon your district is being a bit disingenuous by implying that their very broad non-discrimination policy is really required by Title IX.

 

Beavah

 

[T2Eagle]

Is that a trick question Beavah?

 

They cannot give him extra tutoring because he is an immigrant, and they cannot give him extra services because he's Vietnamese. But they can offer him special tutoring, etc. because he is behind his peers. Just like they would give him or the scion of the Mayflower if either one of them was dyslexic, or went to some crappy school system before, or if for any other reason he was not in line with where he should be. What they couldn't do is deny the benefit to the Mayflower kid because he's a Mayflower kid

 

And although it is not as strong an argument today as it was when I was a kid, it is possible that they could offer someone special services because for the previous 200 years they wouldn't even have let him in the school precisely because he didn't look like a Mayflower kid. But that's an entirely different amendment.

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Nothing to do with the original post , but....

 

 

 

 

WOW! That is scary!I mean scary because I cannot imagine they felt the need to have to add that. Scary because it must have happened at some point in the past!

[Beavah]

Yah, T2, can da school counselor provide resources to the lad who is questioning his gender identity? Can da school or college offer LGBT programming because those communities need da support (or just a place to hang out and talk about "their" issues and struggles)?

 

Or is that discrimination, too, because the straight lads or the girl who isn't questioning her gender identity can't get in?

 

A local alternative school provides parenting classes for teenage mothers that exclude all males. Unlawful? What if it also provides similar classes for teenage dads?

 

The government targets services to sub-segments of da population all the time, including those in suspect classes. All illegal?

 

I don't think so. Lemon established a tripartite test, eh? I don't think Merlyn's argument is convincing. If large vouchers for attending religious schools are OK; if targeted public-private partnerships are OK; I think it's a stretch to claim that nominal sponsorship of a club on public property to serve a sub-set of students won't pass muster. Especially when there's no public $ cost, and a district can show it sponsors many such programs to meet the needs of a diverse group of students.

 

I'm usually about 95% right on SCOTUS rulings, and have had some of my language reviewed by 'em. I think this would pass muster with da current court. Just my opinion, of course.

 

What isn't really opinion is that Merlyn's claims of illegality are a bit exaggerated, eh? It's an open question. And I think when it's an open question, it's a bit dishonest to be castigatin' folks. "What if we banned Jews?" is more than a bit a straw man. Da real question is "can we provide Jewish students with kosher food during Passover in the school cafeteria at government expense?"

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

I don't ever, EVER want to be in a courtroom, and have Beavah at the other Counselor's table...

[T2Eagle]

yeah John-in-KC,

 

Reminds me of my professor who used to say "be patient, I'm not used to teaching law to more than nine people at a time."

 

Let nothing I ever post be construed as agreeing with Merlyn. Even when I agree with him I don't agree with him.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah writes:

What isn't really opinion is that Merlyn's claims of illegality are a bit exaggerated, eh? It's an open question.

 

Then why did the BSA drop public school charters, Beavah? They never run from a court case that someone else has to pay for.

 

Sorry, the claim that it might be legal for a public school to run a private club that excludes people for having the wrong religious views is completely, utterly laughable. And yes, legally, it's identical to a school running a private club that says Jews can't join.

[evmori]

Sure a school can provide tutoring to ANY student who needs it.

 

And until a school actually has a "No Jews Club" or a "Jews Only" club that is run by a public school, Merlyn, your analogy is pointless.