1st Amendment and BSA

[evmori]

Public schools can install floor sinks for whatever reason? Even it the reason they are installed if do Muslims can wash their feet?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No Ed, I realize you can never learn things, but try to read for comprehension.

 

Schools can install sinks for foot washing if a lot of students are washing their feet, regardless of why lots of students are doing that. The reasons for the students' actions is what 'whatever reason' is modifying. The reason the school installs sinks remains the same -- a lot of students are washing their feet. The school doesn't (and shouldn't) care why a lot of students are doing that.(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[evmori]

Seems I'm not the one with the learning problem.

 

Muslims wanted the foot washing sinks installed so they could comply with their religious needs. The public school obliged and installed them. Sure anyone can use them but they were installed for a specific religion not the general public.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, you need to post a link showing that some public school did it for religious reasons, and not practical reasons. The reports I've seen cite nonreligious reasons like safety and damage to sinks.

[OldGreyEagle]

Merlyn, I am not sure I follow.

 

You mention safety or damage to sinks. SO, the Muslims were damaging public areas and facilities in those areas because they were trying to fulfill their religious obligations of washing their feet.

 

So, to stop the damage of public areas, the foot baths were installed. Just for sake of argument, why didnt the state state that damaging state property by using facilities for other than their intended purposes is considered vandalism and subject to criminal prosecution?

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

OGE, should schools prohibit students from washing their feet? Wouldn't that be a violation of religious freedom for people with religious reasons to wash their feet?

 

I don't think you could classify it as intentional vandalism.

 

Suppose there's a school that has had several unsolved murders, students shot at night with no apparent motive; is it OK for the school to hire extra security?

What if the murderer sends a letter to police stating he's only killing Muslims? Is the school now prohibited from spending money on extra security because it's only to protect Muslims?

(Assume the murderer has sent a spent bullet as proof, and the ballistics match, and that all students being killed were recently identified as Muslim in a school story about the school's Muslim group, and the murderer states he's only killing those students, so Muslims are definitely the only target).

 

Is it OK to spend public money if it's only to protect one religious group?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

For that matter, what if some students were regularly washing their feet, and it creates the same kinds of problems as cited before, and the students never state why they're washing their feet? Is it OK to install floor sinks in that case?

[OldGreyEagle]

I have been around for a very long time. For as long as I have been alive, a public restroom for males consisted of urinals, commodes, and sinks at the level of about the waist.

 

If we are saying there is an overwelming demand for foot baths because of hygiene concerns, I have to ask why now? Why is the Status Quo not good enough? If there is some flesh eating bacteria out there that attacks unwashed feet,OK,I am in. I want to see a reason why an alteration to public restrooms is required.

 

There may be a religious sect that says after washing hands,one must look at ones reflection in a full length mirror. If full length mirrors are placed in every public restroom, I can guarantee you they will be used. But does that mean they are necessary?

 

And let me please declare I am not Anti-Muslim, I am not anti-Islam. I just want to understand the arguments and use these examples because they are what has been mentioned.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It's because there's a demand for it now, OGE. Why does the reason for the demand make a difference? Michigan U also installed diaper-changing stations in the restrooms, should they have not done that because not all students have infants?

[evmori]

So it's OK for our tax dollars to support religious freedom for Muslims but not it's not OK for our tax dollars to support the BSA?

 

In the 5+ decades I have been on this earth, I have never seen anyone wash their feet in the sink of any restroom. And I'll bet you could say the same thing Merlyn. These foot baths were built so Muslims could religiously wash their feet. Sounds like this is a direct endorsement of a specific religion. Yeah I know you are gonna toss out the hygiene line. Go ahead. That's nothing more than a poor excuse to directly support a religion.

 

Diaper changing tables have been in rest rooms for decades. Not even a bad comparison!

 

Like I said, I'm not the one with a learning problem.(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed babbles:

So it's OK for our tax dollars to support religious freedom for Muslims but not it's not OK for our tax dollars to support the BSA?

 

No, Ed; it's OK for tax dollars to support religious freedom for everyone, and to support things for public purposes.

 

[evmori]

No, Ed; it's OK for tax dollars to support religious freedom for everyone, and to support things for public purposes.

 

Isn't building a religious anything with taxpayer dollars endorsing a specific religion? And what is the difference between building foot baths for Muslims and placing a Nativity display on the courthouse steps?

 

All this spinning is making me tired. I'm going to bed.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Sinks endorse a specific religion? Hey Ed, are schools prevented from serving vegetables because some people are vegetarians for religious reasons? Are school prohibited from having fish if it's Friday during Lent?

[Lisabob]

"In the 5+ decades I have been on this earth, I have never seen anyone wash their feet in the sink of any restroom. And I'll bet you could say the same thing Merlyn"

 

I have seen people do this. In light of the current flip-flops-are-fashionable fad on college campuses, I've seen more than a few students use sinks to rinse off their dirty feet after trudging through mud to get to classes. Are they all Muslims? No idea, I generally don't ask for the religious affiliation of strangers in public bathrooms.

 

 

[evmori]

Sinks endorse a specific religion? Hey Ed, are schools prevented from serving vegetables because some people are vegetarians for religious reasons? Are school prohibited from having fish if it's Friday during Lent?

 

Sinks built so a specific religion can comply with their religious duties, yes. Your food comparisons are apples and oranges. Hey Merlyn, let's put that nativity set back in the court house since we are allowed to have religious freedom.