BSA Secret "Perversion" Files

[BadenP]

Gary

I have related my personal experiences with the LDS as both a DE and a scouter, if you don't agree with the hierarchy in your church thats not my problem. I don't see any other LDS scouters jumping in to support your position. I could go into much deeper detail about this issue but will not do so here in an open forum. I know what has been told to me by your church elders, I have read your churches publications on not only scouting but the precepts of your faith, you can dance around all you want saying LDS scouts are the same as all others but you know as well as I that is not entirely true.

 

We both know what goes on behind closed doors at LDS scout meetings, they are not the same as other scout meetings. Now don't get me wrong there are some very good LDS scouters and scouts, just don't tell me LDS scouting is exactly the same because it is not, and BSA National has given you their blessing because of the unique relationship between them and the LDS church.

[acco40]

How can one agree with what is in the Bible (almost any Christian bible) and complain about any Christian trying to 'convert' anyone? If so, one must not have much knowledge of that faith.

 

Certain units are faith based - they should have the right to discriminate based on faith.

 

One bit of information that is misinformation - Thats why its so important that as leaders we make sure that YP is a priority in our units and that no meeting or outing is ever conducted with out two deep leadership in place. Nowhere does it state that two deep leadership is required for meetings. You may be confusing two deep leadership with one-on-one contact with youth.

[packsaddle]

Gary noted, "Last I looked LDS people were also Christians."

 

I thought I'd remind everyone of this discussion from years ago:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=175663#id_179689

 

the title of the thread was, 'LDS, Christians, and Politics'. It was related to politics but the question was with regard to LDS identity as Christians. Thought I'd just throw this in.

[BklynEagle]

>>>I know what has been told to me by your church elders, I have read your churches publications on not only scouting but the precepts of your faith, you can dance around all you want saying LDS scouts are the same as all others but you know as well as I that is not entirely true

[BadenP]

Bklyn

 

Up to your old games I see. I never claimed to be an expert on the LDS but I have studied their literature ,and been to many of their church functions and have more than a few friends who are LDS, more than you I bet Bklyn. I have not ever demeaned the LDS churchs beliefs, I just disagree how they use scouting for non scouting purposes. Your attempt at humor is weak at best as is your understanding of your own faith, remember I have two graduate degrees in Theology and Religious History, and have been an ordained minister at a fairly large Christian church for over five years now. So yea Bklyn I will put my knowledge about religion against yours any day. So your accusations are as ridiculous as your arguments, both lack any real substance.

[Gary_Miller]

BadenP, it not that I disagree with the hierarchy in church. Its just that I know what is taught coming out of Church Headquarters in Salt Lake City Utah. And I know that some Stakes and Ward leaders don't always know or follow the program the way its intended to be done, usually because of the lack of training and understanding of how a Boy Scout unit is to run.

 

There is no difference in a properly ran LDS program as there is in a properly ran non-LDS program. The BSA program and guidelines are the same for both units. I know this because I have been apart of both LDS and non-LDS units in different parts of the world (retired Military).

[jhankins]

Even if things are properly run, there are still things that are different. They just aren't big deals to most people (Although I still think Scouting functions and travel on Sundays should be a go).

[Gary_Miller]

jhankins, "Even if things are properly run, there are still things that are different. They just aren't big deals to most people"

 

Your not getting off that easy. If the unit is properly ran according to BSA policies and guidelines. What have you seen that is different?

 

jhankins, "(Although I still think Scouting functions and travel on Sundays should be a go)."

 

What about the BSA policy of charter organizations being able to set guidelines for their units. In this case the LDS Church has decided its best for their youth to be home on Sundays so they can attend church with their families and fulfill their church duties. Its a decision made by the CO for their units.

 

[Gunny2862]

Exchange between Engineer61 and Gary_Miller

"Engineer61, "3) Warning that I have received from parents of the LDS allowing known sex offenders into the BSA troops as leaders. (We know about Oregon.)"

 

All rummer and lies. If a person is a CONVICTED sex offender they are not allowed to work with youth in any capacity in the church. The key word is convicted. Accused is not convicted. This is still America innocent until proven guilty"

 

So is Gary Miller saying that anyone who isn't a CONVICTED sex offender is going to be seriously considered to work with the youth in an LDS Scout Unit? That's the way it reads.

 

I'd be having long long talks with the entire committee about even lifelong friends who brought along any hints of accusations who were looking into becoming Scouters. Becoming a Scouter is not anything that just anyone is or should be allowed to do - temperament alone could be a disqualifier for working directly with the boys, much less prior history of being accused of one of the bigger hot button issues in Scouting.

[BklynEagle]

My mistake, BadenP - you don't demean Western post-Reformation Christian churches, just the pre-Reformation one. Two graduate degrees in Theology and Religious History and an ordination in an unspecified fairly large Christian denomination, and you still haven't managed to get it through your skull that some reasonably intelligent people might actually happen to believe in Catholic doctrine. My understanding of the fore-mentioned is something we've gone back and forth on in other forums, so I'm not going to repeat myself here. As far as my humor goes, it has always been described as fairly dry, bordering on acerbic, though I'm compelled to point out that the last comedic endeavor to incorporate Zuul grossed $291,632,124 in the U.S. alone (1984 dollars). At any rate, this forum is not designed for our old discussion, so it is my intention to refrain from further debate with you on our religious issue here. I invite you to join me in this effort of restraint.

 

Yours in Scouting,

 

BklynEagle

[Eagle92]

Gunny,

Be advised that just the accusation of an impropriety can get someone removed from scouting. While you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, as a private organization BSA's #1 concern is protecting its youth members, and therefore will remove someone from adult leadership just on an accusation. Seen it happen first hand with a good friend.

[Gunny2862]

Eagle92, you are making my point, maybe I didn't pitch it well enough...