BSA Secret "Perversion" Files

[evmori]

Gotta remember the BSA and LDS are thick as thieves. This could be the reason the BSA didn't do anything when they should have. Maybe it's time the BSA take a closer look at this relationship.

[Oak Tree]

the BSA, unlike the Vatican, isn't sitting on a huge fortune

 

From the articles on this trial, the lawyers state that the BSA has $633 million in investments. This may or may not be "huge", but it's enough that they can pay these damages just out of this year's expected interest income.

 

But yes, hundreds of these lawsuits would be a problem.

[Engineer61]

I agree in Evmori...the LDS/BSA relationship should be re-evaluated....and then terminated with extreme prejudice.

 

 

[jhankins]

I don't know about your council, Engineer61, but in mine, The LDS Church is responsible for 70% of the units, 80% of the volunteers, and 80% of the Friends of Scouting.

 

We wouldn't have a council for two of the largest counties in Southern California without the church's support.

[BadenP]

jhankins

If those stats are correct all that proves is that the professional staff in those councils haven't been doing their jobs in recruiting, except for Utah, if a council has more than 30% LDS membership than their are a whole lot of boys there not getting the opportunity to participate in scouting. In spite of what some members in this forum have said in the past, most non LDS parents will not allow their boys join an LDS unit for a lot of very valid reasons. So if your story is true jhankins those SE's and their staffs should all be let go, but in reality I am sure your figures are largely innaccurate.

[jhankins]

On the whole, I don't prefer how LDS troops are run for a variety of reasons, but a dedicated committee and Scoutmaster will change my mind, and one has. We have one LDS troop in my district that's 75% community members, and the committee is only 10% LDS because the parents are allowed to take a role in the decisions made (unless church policy is involved). My area of California is strongly LDS because of the migration of Mormons down the Mormon Trail in the 1840s.

 

Sure, the numbers could be better. The Total Youth Population met in my district several years ago was only 3.5%. Thanks to a lot of hard work, educating the district committee and finding a membership chairman who understood the job, we're up to 5%. Still, that doesn't change the base of funding and core population of the council.

 

The numbers are sadly accurate, especially now during a recession that has brought 15-19% unemployment to much of our council. I've sat in on the field staff meetings on how to approach Bishop's meetings, stake young men's presidencies and how to handle youth membership issues from the church. I've sat through a dozen LDS Relations meetings that specifically are focused to providing the stake presidents with reassurances on how the council is functioning. The numbers are accurate, and will be for some time.

[acco40]

If the Catholic Church or Prysbyterian Church or what ever "main stream" religious organization made the Scouting program the "official" youth program of their church you would bet that they would get the attention of the BSA - ergo the "power" of the LDS in the BSA. I don't see much of a problem except for big picture issues - God, gays, girls, etc.

 

I'd be interested to know what type of insurance, if any, the BSA has for these type of lawsuits.

[BadenP]

acco

 

You are right when you say if another religion made the BSA their youth program, however the reality is that the BSA doesn't fit for most clergy who want their kids trained in the traditions and teachings of their respective faith. Since the LDS has no officially seminary trained clergy they have altered the BSA program to fit educating their boys in their faith, with the blessing of National. Personally I do not like the fact that the LDS is given this leeway when scouting is supposed to be an ecumenical approach to respect the beliefs of all, and that because of MONEY the LDS has the influence they do in the BSA. It seems like a double standard to me, and IMHO weakens the BSA and its program acceptance to many potential groups. This LDS position was also partially responsible for this ASM not being removed much sooner before he did the damage to those boys. I agree that it is high time National takes a long hard look at its relationships with all religious and other organizations, and not let the almighty dollar do their thinking for them. There should be no favoritism or special treatment for ANY specific group within the BSA.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[Mr. Boyce]

Interesting. I'm in an area without many Mormons, so it's educational hearing this stuff.

 

But back to the lawsuit, the nuts of the thing is that the BSA got sued because a guy on a church's troop committee okayed a pervert running a troop.

 

Is that it, boiled down?

[Gary_Miller]

After reading though the last page of this thread its seems their are a few scouter's here that don't understand the relationship between the BSA and the LDS church. I would suggest you learn more about that relationship before you go about providing miss information.

 

As an LDS scouter, 27yrs as a scout leader, I can assure you that the LDS church does all it can to protect the youth in all programs of the church, and always have.

 

You also have to understand that while there are some unfortunate things that have happened over the years in the BSA program, the LDS church and other chartered organizations. I don't believe it was the intention of any of the leaders in these organizations intent to cover up and dismiss the problems. Its quite the opposite most organizations have taken action to fix the problems.

 

It has not been very long ago where the two deep leadership was not required and youth protection training was not in place. Yet even with these two things in place there will still be those that slip trough the cracks and unfortunate until found a youth may be harmed. Thats why its so important that as leaders we make sure that YP is a priority in our units and that no meeting or outing is ever conducted with out two deep leadership in place.

[Engineer61]

There are many other factors with the LDS involvement in BSA that results in conditions that I do not approve of....I live in a heavily Mormon region.

 

1) Extremely low participation by minorities in the region...none in the LDS-based troops. Even though the local population is 40% non-Caucasian.

 

2) Attempts to indoctrinate Christian but non-LDS scouts to LDS.

 

3) Warning that I have received from parents of the LDS allowing known sex offenders into the BSA troops as leaders. (We know about Oregon.)

 

As far as the "Files" are concerned...if there was no intent to cover up anything, then why did the files exist to begin with? If it were to be open, then the matter should have been brought directly to the local organizations so that infiltration could have been prevented there.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Eng,

As I stated previously inthe post, the purpose of the files was to cross refernce new leader applications in a time before computers. Also the reason for the "secrecy," i.e. why national wanted a subpeona for them before releasing them, is that not everyone in those books were removed and arrested. Polcie records are public records, but in the example I have given the leader was removed from scouting, investigated, and no evidence supporting the "scout's" accustaion was found. However just the accusation was enough to remove the leader and keep the leader out of Scouting.

[BadenP]

Gary

 

No MISINFORMATION was given out, you can not deny that the LDS's primary use of the scouting program is to prepare their young men for ministry and going on a mission at 18, this was told to me by an LDS president and two bishops, and that in my opinion is a misuse of the scouting program that your church has been allowed to alter to meet these goals. No one ever said an LDS unit is not safe one, so whats your point there. In the case of this LDS ASM the church and the BSA were both liable for allowing this man continue in his position when at least one if not both groups knew of his past.

[Gary_Miller]

Engineer61, "1) Extremely low participation by minorities in the region...none in the LDS-based troops. Even though the local population is 40% non-Caucasian."

 

Your point would be? It only stand to reason that since the LDS units are usually made up of only youth in their local ward that Non-LDS would not be part of the troop. That being said it has nothing to do with people being minorities. If non-lds youth want to join the troop no one would stop them in fact the church would pay their registration costs and fund their activities just like they do for LDS youth.

 

Engineer61, "2) Attempts to indoctrinate Christian but non-LDS scouts to LDS."

 

Last I looked LDS people were also Christians. And since the LDS feel strongly about their beliefs so much that they seen young men all over the world on missions. Why would they not want to teach their beliefs to their friends and neighbors as well. This would include youth who attend their meetings and youth programs. No different than any other church.

 

Engineer61, "3) Warning that I have received from parents of the LDS allowing known sex offenders into the BSA troops as leaders. (We know about Oregon.)"

 

All rummer and lies. If a person is a CONVICTED sex offender they are not allowed to work with youth in any capacity in the church. The key word is convicted. Accused is not convicted. This is still America innocent until proven guilty(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

[Gary_Miller]

BadenP "No MISINFORMATION was given out, you can not deny that the LDS's primary use of the scouting program is to prepare their young men for ministry and going on a mission at 18,"

 

While as LDS we have a goal that all young men go on a mission and we prepare our young men to serve in the church. I would disagree that the primary purpose of the LDS church in using the scouting program is to that end. The primary purpose is to produce young men who can be strong productive citizens of their communities.

 

BadenP "this was told to me by an LDS president and two bishops,"

 

Then I would have to say these men did not fully understand the purpose of the scouting program and the churches use of the program. Which does not surprise me in the least.

 

BadenP "and that in my opinion is a misuse of the scouting program that your church has been allowed to alter to meet these goals."

 

Alter? Where has the LDS church been allowed to alter the program outside what is allowed by BSA policy on a charter organizations use of the scouting programs?