Atheism

[Oak Tree]

A quick google search suggests that not all of the correctional facilities are privately run. However, it's really hard to tell what the chartered organization might actually be in some of these cases. Just because there is a Boy Scout troop in a correctional facility, that doesn't mean that you can assume the government necessarily sponsors the troop. Who knows what the paperwork says?

 

http://www.in.gov/idoc/2431.htm

http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/OPS/PRISON/cccf_home_page.shtml

http://www.drc.ohio.gov/Public/beci.htm

http://www.corrections.ky.gov/ksr/about/aboutprograms.htm

 

Some of those, in addition to offering Boy Scouts, also offer religious services. Presumably the state isn't providing those.

 

Here's one that directly states "The Camp Summit Juvenile Correction Facility in Michigan City became a chartered member of the Boy Scouts of America last month." But despite the fact that it says they established a "Boy Scout troop", they appear to actually be talking about an Explorer Post.

 

http://www.in.gov/idoc/news/012207BoyScout.pdf

 

Think it's ok for the state to use Scouts as test subjects?

http://www.murfreesboropost.com/scouts-pose-as-inmates-to-test-correctional-center-cms-10535

[Beavah]

Yah, Merlyn, other nations generally approach discrimination differently, eh? And very few, dare I say "none", are as fastidious about separation of church and state. Da Europeans generally provide government money for religious schools and religious programs routinely.

 

Yeh claim that such "discrimination" is illegal in da U.S., but that has not been established. Yeh claim that da BSA is committing fraud, but that is an unfounded accusation of criminal activity, eh? Even if everything yeh said was true, it would not amount to fraud. So in fact, what you are doin' is called "defamation". Not a crime, but a civil tort.

 

And not very ethical to boot. But zealots everywhere never really think about whether their own actions are appropriate. As long as they're fightin' da Great Satan or "illegal discrimination" or whatnot, any and all actions are justified.

 

Beavah

 

[AT1988]

Kahuna,

 

Since the time of the Buddha, the refutation of the existence of a creator has been seen as a key point in distinguishing Buddhist from non-Buddhist views. Buddhism is usually considered a religion, but is also commonly described as a "spiritual philosophy", because it generally lacks an absolute creator god.

 

see: B. Alan Wallace, Contemplative Science. Columbia University Press, 2007, pages 97-98.

[evmori]

Like I keep saying, the BSA is dishonest. Even after the BSA split Exploring into Exploring and Venturing, I was told that BSA officials were pushing Venturing on government entities instead of Exploring.

 

Keep up with the line, Merlyn, and eventually someone beside you will believe it.

 

You were told? By who? Did you investigate to see if this information was accurate?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Just keep making up excuses out of whole cloth Beavah; and yes, there are other countries besides the US which take religious rights seriously, unlike many in this group.

[Kahuna]

AT1988:

 

I've been a practicing Buddhist for a number of years and have done a lot of study on it. I'm Shambhala, which is a Tibetan offshoot. Regardless of what Wallace says, I've seen nothing and heard nothing about refuting existence of a creator.

 

I do agree that in many ways Buddhism is not really a religion, but it certainly is not atheistic in philosophy or practice. Many, if not most, Buddhists do pray to a creator, in addition to chanting to various entities that are not really gods.

 

Perhaps there are some lineages of Buddhists who do refute a creator, but I've not encountered them.

[evmori]

Beavah,

 

There ya go again confusing Merlyn with common sense and logic!

[sherminator505]

"What happened to YANN the thread originator?"

 

Long gone, I'm afraid. Probably came in to stir the pot, just as he said, then left knowing that the buzzsaw known as Merlyn was bound to take over. What, did you really think he would stay to answer OUR questions?!

[evmori]

I am not yann. Maybe yann is one of Merlyn's personalities~

[Mr. Boyce]

"Sherminator, I worked with the IL ACLU to stop charters to government entities back in 2005; however, the BSA can't be trusted to keep to its word, so all the still-illegal charters to law enforcement agencies and correctional facilities still need to be removed."

 

This is hardly something to be proud of.

 

It's sad to hear.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Mr. Boyce, stopping illegal discrimination against atheists IS something to be proud of. That stopping illegal discrimination against atheists makes you sad, it would appear you don't care about the rights of atheists.

[evmori]

I'm still waiting to hear who told you, Merlyn.

[phips]

New WOSM puplication from March 2010:

 

published by the World Scout Bureau Education, Research and Development:

 

Guidelines on Spiritual and Religious Development

 

You can download as a pdf file or read online.

 

http://www.scout.org/en/information_events/library/spiritual_development/guidelines_on_spiritual_and_religious_development

 

There are WOSM NSOs, who dont refer to God or a higher power in their law and promise.

 

Such as Junk in the Czech Republic:

 

I promise on my honour that I will do my best:

 

To serve the Highest Truth and Love, faithfully at all times

To fulfill all my own duties and to observe Scout laws

To be prepared to help my nation and those close to me with all my soul and body

Optionally a Scout may add: May God help me so.

 

Religion in the Czech Republic is a special topic.

Take a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Czech_Republic#Religion

 

But as there are Catholic Scout units in this open association Junk is a Full member of the International Catholic Conference of Scouting (ICCS).

http://www.iccs-em.org/de/member-organisations/junak-association-scouts-and-guides

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by phips)

[Gonzo1]

Atheism has no place in the BSA. It continues to be a private group which can admit (or decline admittance to) anyone it chooses, for whatever reason. No gays, no atheists, no girls (other than Venturing/explorers).

 

This really isn't such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

There are other organizations to which a person can join.

 

The American Atheists website says that "Membership is open to all who agree with our Statement of Aims and Purposes." I couldn't find them on the website, hmmm..... what are they? Does American Atheists allow Christians? I doubt it. Wouldn't that group be stronger and more "enlightened" by allowing me and others like me to join?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No Gonzo1, American Atheists only allows atheists to join. And if public schools or law enforcement agencies, which cannot discriminate on the basis of religion, owned & operated AA private clubs, they should be stopped, don't you agree? Same goes for BSA units.