Atheism

[sherminator505]

I think I stayed on topic. But OGE, you know how these I/P threads get.

[evmori]

Because the BSA doesn't allow atheist members. Why WOULDN'T the BSA tell public schools to kick out people who don't meet their "standards" Ed? Shouldn't the BSA make it clear who can and cannot join?

 

Totally absurd thinking! The BSA membership guidelines have nothing to do with who can attend a public school.

 

It's this kind of thinking that makes people dangerous.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, in case you didn't notice (and you didn't), I was referring to schools kicking kids out of BSA units, not out of school.

[sherminator505]

Hello... Is this thing on?

[evmori]

Ed, in case you didn't notice (and you didn't), I was referring to schools kicking kids out of BSA units, not out of school.

 

Now that's just as absurd!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

What's absurd about a BSA unit kicking out atheists? It's happened a number of times, Ed.

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

I wonder if someone from those public schools who chartered units ever asked, "After we start this unit, will it be okay if Atheists join?" Probably not and since BSA didn't hide it's beliefs, whose problem does that make it?

 

I agree, this whole subject is really tiring! Look how many threads are open right now on the subject! Poor Merlyn probably can't anything else done, too busy just keeping up with the Forum.

[evmori]

Yeah I know someone will say give it a rest but when Merlyn starts twisting things I can't.

 

What's absurd about a BSA unit kicking out atheists? It's happened a number of times, Ed.

 

That is not what you said, Merlyn. You posted

 

Ed, in case you didn't notice (and you didn't), I was referring to schools kicking kids out of BSA units, not out of school.

 

which twisted your prior statement of

 

bnelon44, the new part is how the BSA enforces their DRP. They certainly didn't tell public schools to kick out atheists when they chartered units.

 

The BSA can't tell a public school to kick anyone out and a public school can't tell a BSA unit to kick anyone out! A public school can expel kids for various reasons and the BSA can do the same to it's members.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

NE-IV-88-Beaver writes:

I wonder if someone from those public schools who chartered units ever asked, "After we start this unit, will it be okay if Atheists join?"

 

It would have to be; public schools can't practice religious discrimination.

 

Probably not and since BSA didn't hide it's beliefs, whose problem does that make it?

 

Uh, the BSA certainly DID hide their beliefs. And they continue to act dishonestly.

[CA_Scouter]

HOW did the BSA hide its beliefs? I clearly remember reading the DRP when I joined as an adult 7+ years ago.

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

The BSA approached public schools with an illegal contract; I've seen a number of BSA cases where school officials insisted atheists could join the units they chartered, so the BSA certainly didn't make it clear that public schools had to break the law to charter a unit.

[sherminator505]

"How might an athiest Scouter evaluate a Scout's answer to the question "What does duty to God mean to you?" Or how about "What does 'a Scout is reverent?' mean?" What frame of reference would an athiest Scouter draw upon?"

 

Are there really no takers on this one, because I am really interested in whatever responses might be forthcoming... ?(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[CA_Scouter]

" so the BSA certainly didn't make it clear that public schools had to break the law to charter a unit. "

 

When did this occur? Prior to the court ruling that stated that public schools could not charter BSA units? Would it be reasonable to assume that prior to the ruling that this was not considered to be 'breaking the law'?

 

 

 

[Beavah]

There has never been a court ruling by an appellate court that public schools cannot charter BSA units as a matter of law.

 

Merlyn is speculating that doing so would be found unconstitutional on first and fourteenth amendment grounds. That's his speculation. "Against the law" is a hyperbolic overstatement.

 

Personally, based on how da court has treated educational issues in the past, I'd say it just depends, eh? My guess is that in the end they'd uphold the right of a public school district to contract with the BSA for services including traditional unit charters, if it was part of a broader program that had a secular purpose. That's my speculation, though . Nobody's goin' to contest it, since it just isn't worth the cost when yeh can get the same benefits by a simple work-around.

 

B(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[CA_Scouter]

Thanks for the clarification Beavah. I guess I've been sucked into the passion of M's arguments. Silly me. One of the reasons I don't post all that often in the i/p forum is that I don't have the bandwidth to check these things out for factual content.