Atheism

[evmori]

I did back it up Merlyn. You do fit the description of both. You post here to inflame and you are bigoted against the BSA.

 

Your turn!

 

Why would the BSA tell public schools to kick anyone out? Again, I pray you didn't pull something making that stretch, Merlyn.

[acco40]

Ed & Merlyn - please do not respond to each other. It gets very tiresome. Create your own Ed & Merlyn thread and post away!

 

Yann, if you are really interested ask yourself these questions.

 

Can one be moral if one does not believe in a God or Gods?

 

Also, the DRP only is listed on adult applications so it does not, or should not prevent children (Scouts) from joining the BSA.

 

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. The Boy Scouts of America's policy is that home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principles and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership.

 

[Scoutfish]

yann,

 

Let me answer your original question:

 

 

 

WEll, I do not let them, and I also do not - not let them.

 

To be honest, the policy, the decidon and choice was not mine.

 

It was the policy of a group that was already in existance when I joined.

 

Truth be told, I have no problems with athiests as it will not change how scouting teches my son about scouting stuff.

 

And intelligence is not constrained by either religion ( or lack of) beliefs or sexuality or ethnicity.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

 

 

 

And while I will not try or nor would I consider trying to change your ideas and beliefs.. I will answer another question you asked:

 

 

 

 

Well, if we break everything down to a straight up scientific method

and use all know laws of science, physics and theorys too ( which is what my HS science teacher said was man's way of saying HOW God did it)and break it down to the Big Bang Theory or even before that.... all science notated and accounted for... where did the very first atom or molecule come from? What was it's orgin? Where did everything start at ona cellular level?

 

 

Sure, I know you can say the same for God. So what would we say? "You are right, how does science explain that? It doesn't! Must be magic or a higher power!"

[SSScout]

I still say we need a "Religion & Chaplaincy" thread division/section/thingy. This stuff fills up the "Issues and Politics" d/s/t. The present discussion is neither political nor an issue, I feel, but philosophic and existential. Religious.

 

"It is a sad Reflection, that many Men hardly have any Religion at all; and most Men have none of their own: For that which is the Religion of their Education, and not of their Judgment, is the Religion of Another, and not Theirs".

= William Penn =

 

 

[Axeman]

An excerpt from the Declaration of Religious Principle appears on adult applications. Why an excerpt instead of the full text of the DRP?

 

Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America

Article IX, Policies and Definitions

Section 1

Declaration of Religious Principle

 

Clause 1. The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law." The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of good citizenship should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

 

Regards,

 

Axeman

CR/UC

 

[Axeman]

I realized that my previous post was itself an excerpt. Oops.

 

Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America

Article IX, Policies and Definitions

Section 1

Declaration of Religious Principle

 

Policies

Clause 1. The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law." The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of good citizenship should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

 

Activities

Clause 2. The activities of the members of the Boy Scouts of America shall be carried on under conditions which show respect to the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion, as required by the twelfth point of the Scout Law, reading, "Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others."

 

Freedom

Clause 3. In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

 

Leaders

Clause 4. Only persons willing to subscribe to these declarations of principles shall be entitled to certificates of leadership in carrying out the Scouting program.

 

Clause 5. Other major policies are set forth in article IX of the Rules and Regulations.

 

DEFINITIONS

SECTION 2.

In addition to those contained in these Bylaws, there are other definitions, some pertaining to the Bylaw material, set forth in article IX of the Rules and Regulations.

 

Regards,

 

Axeman

CR/UC

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed writes:

Why would the BSA tell public schools to kick anyone out?

Because the BSA doesn't allow atheist members. Why WOULDN'T the BSA tell public schools to kick out people who don't meet their "standards" Ed? Shouldn't the BSA make it clear who can and cannot join? Oh, there's the slight problem that schools can't legally do that, of course, which is why the BSA has been dishonest in their dealings with public schools for the last few decades...

 

acco40 writes:

Also, the DRP only is listed on adult applications so it does not, or should not prevent children (Scouts) from joining the BSA.

Unless they're atheists, and honest. And the DRP is on youth applications, just in the "information for parents" section, it's not like it's hidden or anything.

[bnelon44]

Axeman, I think you answered your own question of why an excerpt. There is only so much room on the application and interested parties can ask for more info.

[bnelon44]

> bnelon44, the BSA certainly didn't tell public schools that atheists couldn't join when schools chartered units.

 

They told them then what they tell them today. Everyone must adhere to the Oath and the Law. Nothing has changed, which I think was your previous point. Your arguement that some group has taken over the BSA and changed this policy is incorrect. The policy has not changed and what the BSA says about the policy and what it takes to be a member related to this matter has not changed. Sorry, your just incorrect there.

[bnelon44]

>"Also, the DRP only is listed on adult applications so it does not, or should not prevent children (Scouts) from joining the BSA.

Unless they're atheists, and honest. And the DRP is on youth applications, just in the "information for parents" section, it's not like it's hidden or anything. "

 

The Oath and the Law are printed on the cover page of the youth application and they are told they must live by them.

 

This is getting tiresome....(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Well yes, it IS tiresome when the BSA's dishonestly is just waived away.

[campcrafter]

Acco wrote... ask yourself these questions.

 

Can one be moral if one does not believe in a God or Gods?

-----------

 

OF COURSE ONE CAN.

The idea of ones inability to be moral without belief in a god is preposterous and one I hope you weren't proposing, though I know it is an argument many religous promote.

 

cc

[sherminator505]

"Ed & Merlyn - please do not respond to each other. It gets very tiresome. Create your own Ed & Merlyn thread and post away!"

 

Wouldn't that take all of the fun out of this thread?

 

But seriously, I have a question: How might an athiest Scouter evaluate a Scout's answer to the question "What does duty to God mean to you?" Or how about "What does 'a Scout is reverent?' mean?" What frame of reference would an athiest Scouter draw upon?(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[OldGreyEagle]

The Original Poster lasted less than 2 hours, just what is being discussed now?

 

Not that there is anything wrong with what is being discussed, just sayin'