Atheism

[yann]

I registered to this forum just to ask you this: Why don't you let atheists be scouts?

 

I mean why do you think atheists can't "grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God"? It is proven that atheists are more intelligent than theists... Almost every good scientist is an atheist... Is thinking for yourself really that bad?

Why don't you let children decide for their own? And the last question, why do YOU believe in god when there is no proof for it?

[OldGreyEagle]

Remember this is a scouting community all

 

yann, I will answer your question with a question and leave it at that

 

Do you believe in Love?

[yann]

Define love. Yes I believe in love, was it between a woman and man, man and man or woman and woman.

But, this is probably something like "do you believe in darkness?" thing right? Well if your going to post questions like this and intentionally avoid answering my question there is no need to argue then...

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Yann, the real reason is because the BSA was taken over by bigots years ago.

[Lisabob]

yann,

 

Let me say that I think that you will find many scouters who do not agree with BSA policy on this matter. It is a controversial topic, even in scouting circles. Nevertheless, some of us remain in scouting because we believe in attempting to change policy from within, rather than from without, and/or because we believe that the good that comes from scouting outweighs the bad, and/or because we believe that in reality, many scouting units are uninterested in strict enforcement or witch hunts when it comes to some of the more controversial policies, with the practical effect that people who want to be scouts, can be scouts. And of course, many, many people are unaware of the BSA stance on this issue, and sign up their kids for scouts because of the widely held (and generally accurate) perception that scouting is a good, wholesome, fun, outdoorsy program for children.

 

Personally, I agree that the current ban on atheists defies common sense. I think that, as long as atheists understand that they and their children will be exposed to some discussions of religion in a scouting context (A Scout is reverent), they should be able to decide for themselves whether they are comfortable with that. If they are, then they should be able to join, in my view.

 

Of course you will also find others who view what I just described with horror, and feel that the religious aspect of scouting is key to developing young people of character. I will let that group speak for itself, rather than try to make their argument for them.

 

Just please do not assume that there is a monolithic support for this policy, even within scouting circles.

 

[CubsRgr8]

It is proven that atheists are more intelligent than theists.

Please provide a scientific citation for this statement, and while you're at it, please explain how insulting people supports your argument that BSA should be open to atheists.

Is thinking for yourself really that bad?

Thinking for yourself is great, and that's what BSA members have done, concluding that there is value in affirming the existence of God, while teaching respect forpeople's differing beliefs, including the beliefs of atheists and agnostics.

Why don't you let children decide for their own?

I won't let a4 year child decide she's knows when it's safe to cross the street or get in a stranger's car. I won't let a 8 year old child decide he should be allowed to purchase or consume cigarettes, booze, or pills. I won't let a 12 decide she's ready to drive a car or engage in sexual activity. I won't let a 16 year old childdecide he's ready to enlist in the military or get a tattoo. Will you let your children decide for their own, or will you teach them the values that you consider important, including your views on the existence of God?

...why do YOU believe in god when there is no proof for it?

I see "proof" of God in all of creation. What do you see? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[yann]

"please explain how insulting people suports your argument that BSA should be open to atheists."

 

--- your right, it doesn't

 

"Thinking for yourself is great, and that's what BSA members have done, concluding that there is value in affirming the existence of God, while teaching respect for people's differing beliefs, including the beliefs of atheists and agnostics."

 

--- ??? Thinking for yourself is great, but only if its your opinion too right? And please, teaching respect for other people... by banning them? Hmmm...

 

"I won't let a 4 year child decide she's knows when it's safe to cross the street or get in a stranger's car. I won't let a 8 year old child decide he should be allowed to purchase or consume cigarettes, booze, or pills. I won't let a 12 decide she's ready to drive a car or engage in sexual activity. I won't let a 16 year old child decide he's ready to enlist in the military or get a tatoo. Will you let your children decide for their own, or will you teach them the values that you consider important, including your views on the existence of God?"

 

--- WTF? Never said anything about drugs and alcohol(and don't know for your kids, but i thing mine are intelligent enough to realize for them selfs thats bad...) And no, I would tech them about christianity and other religions and let them decide. Why wouldn't I give a 16 year old to get a tatoo?

 

"I see "proof" of God in all of creation. What do you see?"

 

--- Well, I see "proof" for flying spagetti monster... This ain't really a good argument...

[eagle77]

Yann,

BSA was started 100 years ago. At that time it was believed that having some kind of a belief in a higher power rounded out being a scout. Over and over today we continually see on these forums the argument to allow gays and atheists into the program. Personally I have no problem with it, my family background and scouting background have helped me greatly to get along with others. The problem, I think comes in with the many religions that sponser and support scouting groups across the country. Many of these groups have problem with one or both of these issues. If BSA were to change their stance on these two issues many of these organizations would drop BSA like a hot potato and incurage their members to do so too. I do not think that BSA would survive the masses that would walk away from the program. Right now BSA's biggest competitor is not an alternate type program but sports, school and other activities. And until one comes along I don't think you will see any change.

Though I do believe in God I walked away from organized religion when I was younger for just this reason. My relationship with my higher power is between me and him. For those who choose not to believe, to me is your right as well. Religion has been the source over the centuries for war and other cruel things, until certain religions are willing to accept other beliefs or no belief at all what we have is what got.

[SequoiaWDL]

Troll Alert!

[evmori]

Yann, the real reason is because the BSA was taken over by bigots years ago.

 

And Merlyn claims he isn't a troll!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I'm not a troll Ed, I'm ready to back up my assertions with arguments.

[mds3d]

This has "Troll Alert" written all over it, but I am going to reply anyway.

 

"It is proven that atheists are more intelligent than theists..."

Again, please provide support. I am going to brag for a minute. I am finishing a doctoral degree. I am a published researcher. I graduated with honors from undergraduate. My IQ on the Stanford-Benet test is 152 (99th percentile). I am a Christian.

 

"Almost every good scientist is an atheist"

Please provide proof. Do not claim to think scientifically without being prepared to provide proof.

 

"Why don't you let children decide for their own?"

With only a few exceptions, you will find that all Christians can describe a moment when they decided for themselves. The fact that so many teenagers leave their religion (many of those will return) is a testament to the fact that at some point they do make a decision.

 

"And no, I would tech them about christianity and other religions and let them decide."

Why would anyone teach their children about things that they don't believe in? Do you teach your children about Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.. in an unbiased manner? Of course you don't! You couldn't if you tried. Your life, if even not your words, is teaching your opinion already!

 

 

Regardless, the BSA is a religious organization. Any who would try and change that should get out. A belief in God is a fundamental part of what Scouting entails! Whether or not atheists are allowed to become members is another story. I really could care less as long as they understand that they are joining a theist organization.

 

[BDPT00]

"--- WTF? Never said anything about drugs and alcohol(and don't know for your kids, but i thing mine are intelligent enough to realize for them selfs thats bad...) And no, I would tech them about christianity and other religions and let them decide. Why wouldn't I give a 16 year old to get a tatoo?"

 

So much for the intelligence argument.

BDPT00

[DYB-Mike]

I registered to this forum just to ask you this: Why don't you let atheists be scouts?

 

I dont there is any need to speculate whether this person is a troll.

 

YIS

Mike

 

[JoeBob]

Where's Big Billy Goat Gruff when we need him?