The Gay, Communist, Gun Club!

[83_Eagle_T148]

I'm straight, but think BSA, I can't say Scouting as GSA has a more liberal policy, has made an error here. The youth in our program need to interact in a real enviroment, not a fantasy one, out intent is to prepare these young men for life in our society as adults.

 

There is no doubt these young men are, and will encounter, people who are homosexual. I have friends, and business assiciates, who are homosexual ... and would be great role models. In excluding homosexal leaders and youth, we are failing these young men.

 

It's time to let go of antiquated ideas, and live in the real world.

 

[Eagledad]

>>Just because you have a legal right to do something doesn't make it "right."

 

Actually NJ, the legal right does make it "right". Now you may not emotionally agree with it, but legally it is factually right.

 

Barry

[Eagledad]

>>The BSA still doesn't behave like the private club it insists it is

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ridiculous. The BSA could be like the SA in the UK, and have different membership rules for adults vs. youth. And the BSA kicked out atheist youth at least as far back as 1970, so you can't't blame "activists and politicians" for something the BSA has been doing for a long time. You're just trying to blame someone other than the BSA for the BSA's actions.

[JoeBob]

Eagle Dad said:

"Actually NJ, the legal right does make it "right". Now you may not emotionally agree with it, but legally it is factually right."

 

Strongly disagree!

Morally right does not change at the whim of the legislature, legally right does. Some laws change when you step across the state line. Do your morals?

 

Current events example: You're driving your jacked-up 4x4 in a blinding snowstorm in the wilderness of upstate New York. There are no other drivers out in this hellacious storm. You see Nancy Pelosi walking on the side of the road. You have no legal obligation to stop and pick her up. She doesn't look injured. There's no sign of a wreck. She could be on a 10 mile hike.

Would it be morally right for you to leave her in a snowstorm to freeze? She could be looking for global warming...

(This message has been edited by JoeBob)

[Scoutfish]

Okay, I am going to clear up a few things:

 

First -" But I don't see how that fits in with your apparent belief (and the belief of those who currently, temporarily run the BSA) that one of the values of the BSA is that you have to be a heterosexual."

 

That is not ny belief, but apparently the policy./ I stated that I don't care as I am not p[redjudices, racist or bigotted. I do not emphasize either sexuality while doing the scouting thing, because as I see it, camping, hiking, building something out of wood, etc has nothing to deo with sex.

I also said that the only time I can see anything having to do with sex would be when identifying animals such as the differences in cardinal or Mallards ( or any wildlie where the colors are different between male and female).

 

AS fsar as joining a club that you do not beleive in the policies and then fighting it.. I refer to ... well..... Merlyn. Why join this site? It is apparent to even blind people that the only reason * as well as only posts) are concerning the lack of gayness in BSA.

 

I mean, his only reason to be on this site is to "try" and antagonize and sway those who are in the BSA.

 

Why not join a PETA website and say that they should eat a triple angus cheeseburger smothered in gravy?

But I'm not refering to a kid who joins and later finds out about one of the possible thousands of rules that WERE NOT DISCUSSED at roundup.

Nah, I mean somebody ..such as your average gay person, who will join, knowing damn well that if/when the come out of the closet.. they wil have trouble and be pushed out.

 

See, again, this is my deal: Scouiting is not gay or straight as I see it. It's an asexual thing. Camping in itself is gender and sexual nuetral. So is hiking , campfires or fishing. Name your favorite activity here. It's not a sexually themed activity.

 

So anyway..I don't sit around talking like this: " I took my heterosexual fishing pole to the straight lake and in a "normal" way, caught some fish which I later cooked up while dreaming of missionary position with a woman.

 

NOPE! I would just say I brought my fishing pole with hopes tnat if I was lucky enough to catch some fish..I could cook them.

 

So why bring up sex? Especially if the sex you bring up is frowned upon ot banned?

 

Okay, let me be frank about it: Merlyn: Why does everything about scouting have to be about gay this or that? Why does gay have to be brought up at all?

If you were to go to all the other forums.. you would not see people just talking about how straight they were while scouting. They just talk about scouting. Not straight or gay... just scouting.

 

So if you have to make everything about how gay you can be while doing - whatever activity it is you are doing - and you know it will cause problems.. why join up?

 

And in another point: If you are atheist, theist, agnostic, or whatever.. that is totally cool with me. I'm happy for you. But why drag it into everything you talk about.

I like NASCAR , but I don't bring NASCAR into every single conversation I have.

I like fishing, but again, do not include fishing into every single conversation.

 

Likewise.. though I am a God fearing person, and I do have my beliefs.. I do not pray before, during, or after every post I make here in this site. I do not qoute psalms, parables or any other reference from the bible.

 

Now please don't go the whole Government blah blah blah thing. The government represents all people of the US , and most of those people have some sort of beliefe. Even those who have the bible under their arms.

 

Their is no law that says government cannot be okay with religion.

There is one that says that government cannot create or acknowledge just one religion. But that's bnot the case with BSA. Matter of fact, since BSA happens to have CO in many different religions.. it happens to be a fine example of " recognizing ONE religion.

 

So it coms down to this: If you are openly gay.. why join BSA... except to cause trouble and problems with others?

 

 

 

I am not gay. I do not have a problem with gays. But I would not join a gay club with the intentions of complaining about gays. I wouyld not demand that they become a gay AND straight club.

It was a gay club before i joined. I knew it. If I joined.. it could only be because I wanted to start trouble.

 

And that's just stupid no matter who it is!

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Scoutfish writes:

Merlyn: Why does everything about scouting have to be about gay this or that?

 

It doesn't. When BSA officials saw the newspaper report on James Dale as co-head of a gay rights group, why did they kick out Dale? Dale didn't talk about it with his troop; the story didn't mention his Scouting connection; Dale didn't know the BSA excluded gays (since at that time it was a secret internal memo that wasn't even known by the general public); Dale's troop didn't want him kicked out.

 

So why did the BSA make an issue of it? Why didn't they just ignore it, instead of "making trouble"?

[evmori]

Maybe, Merlyn, because they saw an Eagle Scout who more or less lied his way though the ranks.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Lied about what, Ed? There was no public rule against gays. What did he lie about?

[NJCubScouter]

Ed, in addition to what Merlyn said, you are wrong because the BSA does not have a policy against being gay. It only has a policy against being openly gay.

[evmori]

Lied it the sense of stating the Scout Oath & Law for all those years and directly violation Trustworthy.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No Ed, Dale didn't consider being gay to be "wrong," so in his opinion, he wasn't violating the oath & law. YOU might think Dale is in violation, but that's not Dale's standard.

[acco40]

Eagledad- I disagree. The case wasn't about the Government forcing itself on a private club. It was about determining if that club was a public or private institution. Arguments for both exists.

 

If public - why is the President the honorary figure head? Why does congress appropriate money for Jambo? Why did schools and military bases charter units? Why is the BSA chartered by Congress?

 

What the BSA should not be is a exclusionary camping club.

[evmori]

No Ed, Dale didn't consider being gay to be "wrong," so in his opinion, he wasn't violating the oath & law. YOU might think Dale is in violation, but that's not Dale's standard.

 

I love this argument! Just because I don't consider it isn't!

 

!!!!! Horse Hockey !!!!!

 

It makes no difference whether Dale "thought" he wasn't violating the Oath and Law! The fact is he was. Ignorance is not an excuse.

 

Why not join a PETA website and say that they should eat a triple Angus cheeseburger smothered in gravy?

 

Can I get one of these?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No Ed, YOUR opinion is not relevant to Dale's opinion. He doesn't even know you. And it is completely unreasonable for anyone to follow SECRET rules that they aren't told, as in Dale's case.