Scouts and Geeks and Nerds

[Mr. Boyce]

From an earlier thread, it's interesting to note the connections between these kinds of people.

 

One chief commonality is that we're talking about kids who either are ostracized or else are willing to stand on their own two feet and be outside of the popular crowd.

 

Perhaps scouting is losing out to computers, in terms of attracting geeks.

[Eagle92]

Well, I was one of thsoe nerds/geeks in HS, and so were a bunch of us in the troop. But we also had athletes as well.

 

One common trait all of us had, as you stated, was the ability to stand on our own two feet and do things outside the group. I think that can be evidenced by several of my role models and peers who have gone on to serve their country, several in special ops and security forces roles.

 

But the other driving force was that we wanted adventure. Let's face it how many teenagers can say they did a X long trek at Philmont, a X long trek at N. Tier, etc?

 

While I may have been considered a nerd, and yes I was hassled occasionaly for being in Scouts, Scouting gave me the self confidence to know that if things were to hit the fan, I was prepared to deal with them. And I beleive everyone in my troop First Class and above had the same self confidence, and those S-T-2s knew that when they became First Class, they too would be fully prepared.

[GaHillBilly]

"Well, I was one of those nerds/geeks in HS"

 

Not to be nosy, but how long ago was that?

 

(I'm curious how long Scouting has been 'nerdy', and also, whether it's nerdy in all countries.)

 

GaHillBilly

[SR540Beaver]

How long has it been considered nerdy/geeky. Well, I graduated from high school in 1975 and had many Boy Scout friends......who were all considered nerdy/geeky by the majority of their peers.

 

Those friends....like my son today, could care less. Yes, we have a number of boys who come to the troop meeting in full uniform and attempt to wear a hoodie even in August to hide it. We have others who could care less what others think and wear it almost out of defiance to their peers to show they won't give into the pressure. Our guys who have participated in our annual high adventure, active in OA, staff summer camp, staff NYLT, etc. actually prefer to wear the old school knee socks to add insult to injury for those who want to make fun of them. Now THAT's the spirit!

[resqman]

I remember wearing my cub uniform to elementary school in the late 60's early 70's. But it definitely was not considered cool to be a Boy Scout in High School in the 70's.

 

My son had a birthday party last spring. Invited 3 buddies to go indoor skydiving. All of them happened to be Boy Scouts in different troops but none knew the others were Scouts. Never came up between the friends until they saw the scout logo on my custom leather cellphone belt pouch.

[SR540Beaver]

resqman,

 

I remember those days. We wore our uniforms to school because our Den meetings were immediately after school. My Wolf Den Mother was Mrs. Huddleston and their house was just two houses down from the school grounds. My Bear Den Mother was Mrs. Phillips about 5 blocks from school. I lost a shoe cutting thru someone's vegetable garden to get to Mrs. Phillip's house once. I didn't realize how muddy it was and sank halfway to my knee and the suction pulled my shoe right off my foot.

[scoutldr]

Custom leather cell phone belt pouch with Scout logo!!!!! Cooolll.

 

In elementary school, I wore a leather/laced pencil pouch on my belt that I made in Cub Scouts and in which I carried my official cub scout pen and pencil set. We too, wore our uniforms to school on "Den Meeting day", since we would ride a different bus directly to the Den Mother's house after school...then we would either walk home or Mom would pick us up. I have a class picture from as late as 6th grade with 3-4 of us sitting in class in our green BS uniforms.

 

Today, my scouts come to the meeting with their shirts balled up in their backpacks, which they put on for the meeting, and immediately take it back off after the closing.

 

Wish they had bugle ring tones...now that would ROCK!

[GaHillBilly]

Dates, guys!

 

Please, I'm trying to timeline this thing.

 

Kudu's not speaking for himself currently, but I'd guess he might suggest that Scouts as nerds got a big boost after the '70's switch to teaching "management" rather than outdoor skills. I'd be real interested to know if Scouts were nerdy in the 50's and 60's, too.

 

GaHillBilly

[John-in-KC]

No, it happened in the Viet Nam protest era of 68-71, at least in California.

 

In spite of the fact we were backpacking 50 miles in the high Sierra every summer, we were ostracized for being junior military.

 

Uniforms and structure were not wanted, thank you.

 

 

[skeptic]

Guess it depends on the definition; but most of the ones in my units during the late 50's and early 60's were at least above average students, and interested in science, and seemed to be more than willing to explore outside their known world. But, in reality, camping was more drive in then too, as equipment was still heavy and uncomfortable. Of course, driving in then did not subject you to much but the outdoors, as the idiots who make the more accessible sites such problems today, were pretty much non existent.

[Oak Tree]

Scouting is perceived as nerdy in Follow Me, Boys. The movie was released in 1966 but set in the 1930s. Whitey doesn't want to join the troop because of that stereotype.

[OldGreyEagle]

Right you are Oak Tree, I believe Whitey told his father he didnt want to join no "dasiy pickin' mamma's boys"

 

And that would have been mid 20's. After all by WWII Whitey is a physician in the Army.

 

When was the last time the epithet, " you are such a Boy Scout" was hurled as a compliment? A person acting with integrity may be asked, "why are you being such a boy scout?"

 

After the 1968 Democratic Convention, the Troop of my youth (Located in the Northwestern Suburbs of Chicago) did not wear our uniforms to anything but Courts of Honor for about 18 months. It wasn't worth the anticipated beatings that would have been handed out by the "hippies" (funny I thought Hippies were peace loving)I remember a Fall Camporee in 1969 at Salt Creek Park in Dupage County, Ill. where the adults had the older boys patroling the borders of the campsites because the hippies were supposed to raid us.

 

When pop culture worships "bad boys" and Anti-heroes, why would anyone want to be seen as a 'goody goody two shoes?

 

How many teen age girls were shown in the movies and songs of the late 50's and 60's as getting weak in the knees over a youth trying to be a solid citizen versus the "Leader of the pack" type?

 

If the only James Dean would have been a "Rebel with a Cause": that to make Eagle, perhaps things would be different. If you are looking at a time line. Look at the 60's. When the 60's started pro football was as conservative as it could get. But by '69 Broadway Joe reigned supreme, the ultimate "bad boy" of sport, and hero to many youths of the time

 

[GaHillBilly]

Thanks for the info, skeptic. I remember 'old' drive-in camping, though not the first time I went (June 1955, b4 I was a year old!). And you're right. Drive-in then was much more remote than hike-in is today. That area now is the province of hunters, and 24-pack swilling off-roaders. Not fun.

 

 

And, yeah, I'd forgotten that bit from "Follow me, boys".

 

Of course, that movie does bring something interesting. In the 50's and 60's, 'nerdy' was not as 'nerdy' as it is now. I wonder, if the extreme importance on fitting in is also one of the negative outcomes of the 60's & 70's?

 

Certainly, that was the generation when kids became markedly estranged from their parents.

 

Today, it seems somewhat different. At least in home school circles, many kids are very close to their parents. But, I also see another kind of closeness, where the parents seem to adopt their kids values, rather than the other way round. In fact, that was one of the issues in the last troop we were in.

 

 

GaHillBilly

[scoutldr]

My 6th grade picture would have been 1965. I missed the shift to the ODL uniform and dorky red berets (sorry, OGE). By 8th grade and on,(circa 1968-72) I had migrated to an Explorer Post, and we routinely showed up in uniform with our ambulance and moulage kit to give first aid demonstrations to the PE classes. We were cool and served as "staff" at most council/district events. Growing up in a military family in a military town, the anti-military sentiment didn't really affect us. EVERYONE's dad was in the military, or as mine was, recently retired.

 

My perception is that Scouting was "cool" during WWI and WWII, since they were viewed as "junior CD wardens", helping to keep the home fires burning while the men were off to war and the moms manned the factories. I don't think the "nerdiness" started until the mid-late 60's.

[Twocubdad]

I would disagree that Scouts are a bunch of geeks and nerds. We have some real geeks and nerds in our troop -- you know the stereotype: introverted, very smart, nose buried in a book or computer -- and frankly, they don't usually do that well in Scouting. Standing up and running a meeting and participating in high adventure activities are rather ungeeky persuits. I would say that Scouting helps the more nerdy kids out of their shells.

 

I see most of the harassment of the guys as part of the usual teasing that is a constant in middle school. Kids get teased for anything and everything -- being in Scouts, going to church, fat, skinny, short, tall, playing in the band, taking advanced classes, doing well on a test, failing a test. When my boys were suffering through this garbage in middle school, one thing I told them was it was simply part of middle school. By high school, most people grow up enough that they quit worrying about everyone else, and develop more of a live and let live attitude.

 

Now that both my boys are in high school, I think that's the case. They, and most of their friends, are comfortable enough in their own skins that they don't worry about it too much. Both are at a new school and are frequently surprised to learn that their new friends are Scouts. They think it's cool to learn someone else is an Eagle, or SPL. But they're still careful about who they let know they're in Scouts and I would be surprised if they showed up in uniform.

 

For your timeline, as cubs in the late '60s I had the same experience of wearing our uniform on den meeting day and going to our Den Mothers' house right after school.

 

I grew up in a fairly small town and just about everyone was in Scouting at one time or another. I was still a very big deal to be an Eagle Scout and I think we were held in relatively high esteem even by the other kids, who at minimum saw Eagle as a leg up.

 

My senior year (1978) a member of our Philmont crew was killed in a climbing accident and his dad, the SM of another troop, asked the other crew members to serve as honorary pall bearers. The timing of the funeral was such that there were quite a few Scouts at school in full uniform and checked out early for the service. I remember six of us lined up outside the office waiting to check out in full, formal uniform. We didn't get any snide comments as the group of us included the student body president, starting quarterback, an all state wrestler, editor of the school paper, and president of the Key Club. Not an especially geeky crowd.