LA Police and Fire depts. to end Explorer programs

[Lisabob]

I stand (partly) corrected. This change did occur after the Dale decision, but later than I had thought.

 

Thanks, Merlyn, for clarifying the time line.

[evmori]

No, the BSA dishonestly kept rechartering public schools for five years after the Dale decision. They didn't stop until the ACLU threatened to start suing public schools that ran BSA units that excluded atheists:

 

And the public schools dishonestly accepted the charters! Ignorance is no excuse.

 

And yes packsaddle, I know I am not a moron! I'm Irish!

[boomerscout]

I realize the police and fire departments operate with tax money. My question was whether tax money was paid to the LFL as fee for services, or not. If this was just something that off-duty police & fire did in their own time, then I don't see it as significant government backing.

broadening our child base by allowing the children of atheists seems OK as we already have Sunday only Christians in Scouting. Of course, we will have to rewrite the Scout Law. We may also see churches no longer wishing to be the CO

 

 

[JerseyScout]

My problem is that it is called "Boy Scouts", not "Hetrosexual-Religious-Only Boy Scouts". The program is to help boys, and homosexual and/or atheist boys would, in my mind, need Boy Scouts even more than some Hetrosexual-Religious boys. Gays, especially in high school, can feel very alone, left out, and lost. Scouting would give them a group to belong to, an automatic support network, a place where they wouldn't have to worry. Athiests are not beholden to an automatic moral code like religious people (very much in theory) are. A code of behavior and moral, such as that presented by the other 11 parts of the Scout Law, are a heck of a code to live by. If EVERYONE lived by them, war and lots of other terrible things simply would not happen (paraphrased from Lord Baden-Powell).

 

FOR THE BOYS, Scouting should include everyone who is not a danger to the other boys (the idea of Homosexual leaders, especially ones that were not Scouts themselves, is a completely different debate).

 

As a private organization, Boy Scouts of America has a right to exclude certain types of boys from their organization, this was upheld by the Supreme Court, and I have to qualm with that. But being right does not make it right. And, as sad as it makes me, that could limit some ways in which Boy Scouts reaches out to kids, whether it be that they are unable to be chartered by public groups or maybe even that they might have issues meeting on public grounds such as schools (as is the debate in Philadelphia right now). The is a bitter pill to swallow, but it was the obvious extension to the arguments made in the Supreme Court.

 

Boy Scouts is at least 95% a totally great, awesome, and rewarding program, one I feel should be open to all boys. Right now, there are untold numbers of gay and atheist Scouts in the program, even Eagle Scouts. I know, I came through Scouts with several Scouts from both groups, some of whom became Eagles, all of whom were fine Boy Scouts. The fact that gay Scouts/former Scouts who get thrown out of Scouts fight to stay involved is a sign that Boy Scouts is obviously an excellent program that they believe has a lot more upsides than down. Hopefully National will eventually work that one out for themselves.(This message has been edited by JerseyScout)

[evmori]

Ya might have something there, boomerscout. If no tax dollars go to funding the program, is it still a violation?

[boomerscout]

All boys need Scouting -- without exception. Just my opinion.

[BadenP]

Well said Jersey Scout. It is also a shame that the inner city kids of LA where drugs and gang violence is among the highest in the country will now be deprived of the opportunity to associate with police and firefighters in these programs where they learn how to help improve the neighborhood instead of tearing it down. Thanks to one petty little politician in LA the city will suffer as well as the youth. What a great legal system we have, and the saying, "Justice is blind", has never been truer thanks to people like Leroy.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Justice being blind, of course, is considered a GOOD thing. Justice is supposed to be blind to treat everyone equally, instead of allowing, say, nobles to commit acts that are crimes if done by commoners. People tend not to like being treated like inferiors.

[BadenP]

Not in this case Leroy, your analogy is out of date and irrelevant as is this case where you get to push your personal, and others of your ilk, agenda once again and at the expense of the youth that really needed these programs. So what was really won here Leroy? Your arrogance really does disgust me.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Yeah, I have this "horrible" agenda that the government must treat all people equally, instead of practicing discrimination. I'd be against the government using a program run by a nondiscriminatory division of the KKK, too.

 

As long as the BSA keeps insisting on discriminating, I'll work to get them cut off from the government.

[evmori]

Nice spin, Merlyn, but the only thing you are pushing is your atheist agenda under the guise of equality.

 

I wonder how many other things our tax dollars pay for exclude Jews or atheists or pedophiles or Presbyterians or people under five feet tall?

 

The BSA is a private organization that is allowed to set it's own membership guidelines. SCOTUS agreed! You might not like the ruling but that doesn't invalidate it!

 

The only people getting hurt are the kids who need the program LA discontinued.

[le Voyageur]

getting in late on this one...per

 

Say what you will Leroy but I and everyone in this forum view you as nothing more than an invasive nuisance that obviously has an axe to grind against scouting. I am sure if we could investigate you we would find a plethora of faults with you, but since we can not you continue to fan the flames which makes you like a parasite and in this forum an outlandish TROLL. So attack if you will but that doesn't change the fact you are indeed a pitiful little troll. BP

 

I'll have to disagree,ML is right. Time for BSA to become more inculsive.....

 

[BadenP]

"Time for the BSA to become more inclusive"

 

That may be so la voyageur but how many kids have to lose access to programs that would help them become better people and make a better life for themselves in the process? Early on I worked with the inner city kids of LA I know firsthand the conditions they live under and the obstacles they face on a daily basis, most of us adults could not deal with them. I helped start a scouting program with these kids along with other programs to help them have a chance to break free from this drugs and gangs way of life.

 

So yeah I get really hacked off when I hear people like Merlyn spout off their dribble while kids are being shot, selling and using drugs, and joining gangs just so they can survive in those inner city cesspools. If you talk to those kids they will tell you that they feel that nobody gives a damn about them. These programs allowed the police and fire departments to interact with these kids on a one to one basis, to show them alternatives, and give them a chance to break this vicious and violent poverty cycle. Now those programs are gone, and don't kid yourself will never be back due to the politics and no money to fund them. A legal loophole is gong to result in hundreds and hundreds of kids giving up and winding up who knows where. So yes I am angry about this issue, and if there is a law that allows this tragedy to happen then it is time to change that law.

 

Merlyn, your statement that you are going to "cut the BSA off from the government for their discriminatory practices" is nothing more than a pathetic smokescreen that will have serious consequences in this case for the city and the youth of LA. Speaking for myself, I think you are a loathsome human being.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

So yes I am angry about this issue, and if there is a law that allows this tragedy to happen then it is time to change that law.

 

Why not spin off L4L instead? Seems a bit easier than trying to repeal a longstanding law about not having city contracts with discriminatory organizations. You'd need to argue that the city ought to have contracts with discriminatory organizations, and coming from members of a discriminatory organization like the BSA, it'll just look self-serving.

 

Merlyn, your statement that you are going to "cut the BSA off from the government for their discriminatory practices" is nothing more than a pathetic smokescreen that will have serious consequences in this case for the city and the youth of LA. Speaking for myself, I think you are a loathsome human being.

 

Well, I think you're loathsome for supporting a discriminatory organization like the BSA. The BSA isn't the only game in town, and their discriminatory policies certainly don't help when it comes to any sort of governmental involvement.

[CalicoPenn]

I've noticed an awful lot of claims being made that the youth of LA is going to be losing out. My understanding is that the police and fire departments in LA will be continuing these cadet programs, just not under the rubric of LFL so who really loses out? Certianly not the youth of LA who will still have access to cadet programs in LA. Certainly not the police and fire departments who will still be running cadet programs. The only folks losing out appears to be LFL, who loses membership numbers, and perhaps some financial benefits (I'm unsure how much of a financial hit LFL will take - it could be significant or it could be peanuts). LFL loses the prestige of being able to say "The LA Police and Fire Departments sponsor Explorer Posts".

 

Sure, the cadets would probably lose out on being able to send folks to compete against other cadets on a regional or national platform but to be frank, in a city the size of LA, the youth would be better served by having intramural competitions between the various participating stations in LA rather than having to choose an "elite" squad of cadets to compete on a national platform.