Reform school?

[BadenP]

Now a new internet news article today a NY Eagle Scout and a senior is suspended from his high school for having a 2" knife in his emergency kit in his car. He is afraid with this on his record he won't be allowed in at West Point next year. When will the madness end???

[SctDad]

HEre are some things that I have seen.

 

The young tiger cub did have a knife on that eating utensil. THere was also a can opener on that tool also.

 

Lets take a look at why he took it. He took it to eat. That is all. There was NO intent. When something like thisn happens, look at the intent. The young boy only took it thinking that he was going to eat with it. Same thing happened about a year ago, except it was a young girl who took a steak knife to CUT HER STEAK. I cannot remember if it was metal or pllastic, but she was also suspended.

 

As for the boy who had the knife in his SURVIVAL BAG. Yes he should have removed the bag from his vehicle. I have forgotten to take things out of my bag. From the sounds of it, he has someoine who is a rat that knows too much about what is in this young mans vehicle.

 

If I was administrators at West Point, I would accept this young man in based on his history, his dedication, and the sole purpose to irritate someone back in his town that is obviously trying to ruin his future.

 

The thing that I think is funny, is many moons ago, when the teacher asked if anyone had a knife in my school, becuase the teacher needed to cut something, just about EVERY boy in the class would pull out some kind of knife, (leatherman, gerber, pen knife, buck knife) and nothing was said.

 

Not to mention, It was my senior year before parents were asked to stop having hunting rifles in windows when picking up students to go hunting.

[SMT224]

What is happening here is the Slippery Slope Logical Fallacy, in which an assertion is made that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In this case, if a student has a knife, it will be used to stab another student or teacher. The assumed inevitable has now been carved in stone: any knife, not matter how small, will lead to inevitable violence. All the other potential weapons in a school are ignored a sharp pencil or pen, landscape rocks, a heavy desk, books, and of course body parts like fists and feet. We humans have never had a problem turning anything at hand into a weapon if we feel the need.

 

And yet, here we have those in whom we have entrusted the education of our children, falling for the oldest trick in the book. If A happens, then eventually Z will happen, too. Z should not happen. Therefore, A should not happen, either. People have been stabbed with knives, stabbings are bad, and therefore, having a knife becomes equal to stabbing. And thats the assumption the schools are working on if you have a knife, you will stab someone. The frustrating part of this is that it is wrong, wrong, wrong! Ninety percent of the adult leaders and Scouts on any camping trip or at BSA summer camp are carrying knives, and yet spontaneous stabbings do not occur. I think the school boards who set such policies need some education!

 

[Eamonn]

I've lost count of the number of times that I have posted about me not being in favor of long lists of rules, bylaws and the like.

One reason I'm not for them is because they are either so full of holes and there is a need for so many exemptions that in the end they become meaningless.

Not having long lists of specific rules does mean that the person in charge can't hide behind a rule book.

How many times have we seen someone new to the forum ask what the BSA policy is on something where there is no policy?

Most times I think these people in their heart of hearts know what is the right thing to do, but feel having a rule or policy will make things a little easier for them.

 

A lot of time rules, laws and the like are rushed through with little or no thought as to what the consequence of this will be.

Here in PA. Not so long back a guy on parole while robbing a store, shot and killed a Philadelphia policeman.

Lord knows we don't want people going around killing anyone let alone policemen.

Governor Rendell, who served as mayor of Philadelphia was very upset about this. He for a while put a stop on parole for all people convicted of violent crime. While an investigation was made into how parole was dealt with. At one stage he wanted all people convicted of violent crimes and crimes where firearms were used to serve their full sentence.

On the surface this sounds like a great idea.

I don't know how well or how badly the way that parole was working. Maybe an investigation was in order?

I do know that our correction facilities are already over crowded and understaffed (In part because Governor Rendell, when the economy went south placed a hiring freeze and then dragged his feet for 101 days on the budget.)

For the people who work with these convicts, other than the threat of delaying their release, there isn't very much that can be done in the way of discipline. If they know that they will have to serve their entire sentence, there is no incentive for them to do anything.

I never read all the stuff that was in the Patriot Act.

After 9/11 we all wanted to feel that something was being done that would keep us all a little safer.

It seems that some of the stuff in this act, which maybe did take steps to keep us a little safer, also took away some of the rights we have.

My old home town London is now full of cameras that watch peoples every move. Some people think that this has gone too far, while others think it's a good thing.

The rush to prevent violence in our schools,came after the tragic violence we seen in our schools.

I'm sure none of us wants to see kids going to schools armed to the teeth.

The zero tolerance policy is easy to hide behind.

It does mean that there can be no favorite's or favoritism. The rule is the rule is the...

Still.

I think a kid who is really messed up and is going to school with all the guns from his Dad's gun cabinet is not going to be deterred by a zero tolerance policy.

I think unless we make all of the students go through metal detectors and subject them to searches the best we can hope for is finding this kind of thing (Knives and the like) Only when it's to late.

But even though I might think that these zero tolerance rules are a waste of time and a little silly, I'm enough of an old book thumper to think that once we have a rule or a policy, that we are stuck with it until such a time as it is changed.

In the case of the kid taking the camp kit to school? I think he shouldn't have taken it to school and the big problem is that the punishment just didn't fit the "Crime".

Ea.