Roman Polanski

[eisely]

According to one internet source this morning there are now 138 Hollywood celebrities demanding the immediate release of Polanski. One name that is constantly mentioned is Woody Allen. How's that for irony?

 

This is an amazing situation. This is moral relativism raised to a new level. This could become a turning point in the entertainment industry.

 

I know some will point out the sins of various conservative politicians, prominent evangelists, roman catholic priests, etc. The difference is that these offenders knew they were doing something wrong and tried to hide it. They at least were capable of a sense of shame once they were exposed. The message coming out of Hollywood now is that it is high artistry to not only rape 13 year olds but also to flaunt your depravity and no one has a right to judge.

 

My wife and I go to a lot of movies, but I am considering drawing up a personal boycott list. At least I can avoid providing financial support to those who are the worst creeps.

 

Hollywood occasionally rises above itself and produces films of great artistry that are truly profound. Consider Schindler's List and Sopie's Choice for example. Nevertheless it is still an entertainment industry many of whose biggest earners now have revealed what they think of the rest of us.

 

(This message has been edited by eisely)

[OldGreyEagle]

One wonders if it was Father Roman Polanski, refugee Roman Catholic priest who fled the US under identical circumstances, who was just arrested whether or not the same glitterati would be calling for his head?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I'd have no problem with both Polanski and Pope Benedict in prison.

[eisely]

Merlyn,

 

Of what crimes has Benedict been accused? Of what crimes has he been convicted? To what crimes has he pleaded guilty?

[scoutldr]

Who wants cake?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

He's been accused of covering up sexual abuse by priests while he was a Cardinal. While Pope, he was named in a Texas lawsuit but got diplomatic immunity, so there's not much chance there will ever be any trials.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

"Cake or death?"

[eisely]

It would not surprise me if Benedict, while a bishop or cardinal, helped cover up sexual crimes committed by priests. I am not at all sure how a member of the hierarchy in Germany can play a role in covering up crimes committed in the US, but then that is merely nitpicking. Coverups certainly happened in the US, and some in the hierarchy in various jurisdictions probably committed criminal offenses by not reporting allegations of which they became aware. However, suspicions and allegations and do not add up to convictions.

 

Further, one does not get "convicted" in a civil suit. You know that Merlyn. Further one does not go to jail as a result of losing a civil suit.

 

There also is a qualitative difference between being the actual rapist and covering for the rapist after the fact.

 

So perhaps your desire to see Benedict in jail really derives from your general animus towards all things religious.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Or perhaps its due to your general defense of all things religious. You even say you wouldn't be surprised if he helped cover up sexual abuse....!??

 

You wouldn't be surprised if the Pope helped cover up sexual abuse? What kind of standard is that?

 

And, of course, a member of the RCC can help cover up crimes in the US by writing instructions to priests to not report allegations and move abusive priests instead of going to the police.

 

There also is a qualitative difference between being the actual rapist and covering for the rapist after the fact.

 

Yes, the person covering up the rapist is often WORSE. The rapist/molester will often rationalize their own behavior or be emotionally unable to resist acting out abusive behavior; the person who covers it up has no such excuse, helps perpetuate the abuse far longer, and might even be thwarting the abuser who "wants to be caught."

 

 

(rephrased a bit better)(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[OldGreyEagle]

SO, what about this Roman Polanski guy?

[eisely]

Roman Polanski is a seventy year plus old man who is a movie director. Born in Poland before WWII. I have not heard it said that he was born jewish but the fact that he survived the holocaust in a concentration camp as a young boy suggests that he is, or at least was born, jewish. (His religious affiliation has nothing to do with anything, except that some wish to excuse his behavior based on his prior sufferings.)

 

Polanski was also married to Sharon Tate when she was murdered by members of Charlie Manson's cult.

 

So it is fair to say that he had some tough earlier experiences.

 

Subsequently in the 1970's at the age of 44 he persuaded a 13 year old girl and her parents to let the girl pose for some pictures. The photo shoot actually took place at a residence owned by Jack Nicholson, although Nicholson was not home at the time. During this shoot Polanski plied the girl with alcohol and qualudes. He attempted to persuade her to have sex with him. He did begin conventional intercourse but apparently withdrew when he learned that she was not using contraceptives. He then completed his rape in a different orifice. Very thoughtful of him.

 

I don't whether the girl or her parents reported it to the police but the record is clear and was not challenged.

 

Polanski negotiated a plea bargain but fled the jurisdiction to France before sentencing. Subsequently he has lived in complete freedom and luxury in France where he enjoys citizenship. Also a dual citizen of Poland.

 

This thing was brought to life a few years ago when someone made a documentary about the case. The original judge died some time ago, but the prosecutor on the case claimed in an interview for the film that he engaged in some misconduct that may have contributed to Polanski's flight. That prosecutor in the last few days has recanted his interview with the film makers.

 

All this recent activity led to new hearings about the legitimacy of Polanski's original plea bargain. The new judge was willing to hear the pleadings, but insisted that Polanski appear. This was a few months ago. Polanski did not appear, and when the California authorities learned that he was going to be in Switzerland, they exercised their rights to request extradition under our treaty with Switzerland. Apparently the US does not have an extradition treaty with France.

 

So right now Polanski is in custody in Switzerland awaiting extradition hearings under Swiss law.

 

The fact that the case is over thirty years old is irrelvant. Many of the crimes by priests about which Merlyn is so exercised occurred even earlier.

 

The fact that Polanski negotiated a plea to a charge less than rape is essentially irrelevant to how he should be viewed by society at large. He committed statutory rape.

 

The fact that the victim states that she wants the thing to go away and that she forgave Polanski years ago is also irrelevant to society's larger interest. No one wants to impose more pain or noteriety on this woman, but the fact that that might happen is Polanski's fault, not the fault of the authorities.

 

So what we now have is a large number of Hollywood notables willing to dismiss his crime as unimportant.

 

Polanski is a very creative man. But his film achievements cannot offset his acknowledged crime. I have no problem with any of his peers providing character witness testimony at his sentencing if they choose to do that, but to take the position that society should now simply forget his crime is depraved.

 

Among those who have spoken publicly are Sharon Tate's sister who seems to have a problem with the idea of statutory rape, and Whoopi Goldberg who somehow thinks that what Polanski did was not "rape - rape" whatever that means.

[Nike]

Polanski, quite simply, has neither honor nor courage. He also does not have faith. He is utterly self-centered and amoral.

 

He is the complete opposite of a decent human being no matter how tragic his life, good a father, devoted a husband, or creative an artist.

[Lisabob]

I have very little tolerance for people who make excuses for rapists. And there are *always* excuses, it seems. These people are a big part of the reason why rape is such a common crime. It is still, more or less, socially accepted behavior. If it were not, many rapists might have thought twice before forcing themselves on their victims.

 

On the flip side, though, I feel very badly for the woman (then, girl) involved, who is forced to relive her experiences every time Polanksi's behavior gets rehashed in the media. For her sake, I hope this is the last time, whether he gets tossed in prison for the rest of his life (unlikely) or whether the case is finally dropped.

 

 

[HICO_Eagle]

I have always refused to watch any Roman Polanski film specifically because of his lack of remorse over his despicable actions. I haven't any use for Woody Allen either, guess I should look up this list of celebrities so I know what else I can avoid wasting money on (not that Hollywood has produced much worth spending money on in recent years).

 

Merlyn, 'fess up. You want Pope Benedict in prison because 1) he's the Pope (which goes against your pro-atheist agenda) and 2) he stands firm on the Catholic stance against active homosexuals, don't you?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

HICO_Eagle lies:

Merlyn, 'fess up. You want Pope Benedict in prison because 1) he's the Pope (which goes against your pro-atheist agenda) and 2) he stands firm on the Catholic stance against active homosexuals, don't you?

 

No. I want the pope in prison for his part in covering up molesters in the Roman Catholic Church. I already explained that.