Year Around School

[Narraticong]

President Obama recently said America should consider a longer school year. The concept is that more classroom time will equate to better educated children. I can't argue much with that.

 

But a couple of questions to be considered. First, is it just healthy to give the kids some kind of break during the summer? A time to relax and be children. Which leads to the second question. If year around school is implemented, what will happen to BSA summer camps and high adventure bases such as Philmont? Seems they would pretty much have close down. Thoughts?

 

Ken

[scoutldr]

We had a year-round school pilot program here, and it's being discontinued because of the cost and parental disapproval. It was known as the 45-15 program, which I think meant 45 days (9 weeks) in school and 15 days (3 weeks) off. And not all schools were on the same schedule, so your kids could be "off" at different times. Being in a coastal resort area, we have a state law that says schools can't begin until the day after Labor Day...because of the resort lobby that claimed they needed cheap high-schooler labor during the tourist season. That's a law that I think should be changed. Here schools started Sept 8th and don't get out until the middle of June...not counting any snow days or swine flu disruptions.

 

The current school schedule was based on our past agrarian society when the kids were needed to work on the farms in the summer. Do kids need the summer off just to "be kids"...I don't think so. Especially seeing the academic skills that they are graduating without. Perhaps treat them like employees...get your work done and meet academic goals, and you can have time off. Otherwise, keep at it.

 

[Eagle92]

Lots of programs and companies would haev to shut down. ANY summer camps, whether BSA, YMCA ad nauseum would be affected.

 

Also affected would be lots of out of school extracurriculars, i.e. soccer leagues, football leagues, etc.

 

In the year round shcools in my area, family vactaions have been affected when children in different grades have different off periods.

 

As for more time in class=better education argument, there are some arguments that do NOT support that argument.

 

The key to education IMHO is discipline. Teachers need to be able to use it, and parents need to support it. Too much responsibility is caste upon teachers already, but they have no authority discipline kids in a meaningfull way. If you hold kids back logn enough they automatically get promoted; principals "punishing" kids with lollipops, etc. Biggest reason why I got out of the education field after teaching breifly.

[OldGreyEagle]

always thought the summer vacation was due to the fact that the early US was an agrarian based society and the youth were needed in the fields and/or no one wanted to have kids sweltering in the school buildings. I don't know if all school buildings have A/C but that could be an expense.

 

We pay teachers for 12 months, why not have them work 12 months? And I mean no disrespect to teachers, but why not have them work. It does mean quite a realignment to society beyond the schools. Vacation spots would take a hit at the least

[Eagle92]

OGE,

Actually the salary is for 9 months. It is called "annual" because that is what you are paid for the year. Work summer school and you got extra pay.

 

Also employees had the option of having their full paid only while they are working, or having it spread out over a 12 onth period. So you could be paid say $3333.33/month for 9 months or $2500/ month for 12 months. that's based upon a "yearly" salary of $30,000 At least that was the way it was back in the day in my neck of the woods.

 

And that $30K was just an example.

[Nike]

When we lived in Monterey, we had nine weeks on, two weeks off with eight weeks at summer. That worked well for us.

 

If we lengthen the school year, how many are going to want to pay the extra taxes to add 10-20% to your local ed budget just to keep the kids trapped inside forty more days a year.

[Kahuna]

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference.

 

It's working! The Twelve Step program is working!

[Lisabob]

My two cents' worth:

 

1) We don't, in fact, pay many teachers for 12 months of work. If we did, teacher salaries would be much higher. I'm a teacher (at a university, but still...). My salary is based on 8 months of teaching. I can opt to have it paid over 12 months, but that just means smaller paychecks stretched out over the year. It doesn't mean I'm actually paid for the summer, unless of course I teach summer classes. My retirement, life insurance, and other employer-provided benefits are all based on my 8 month base salary, whether I teach extra in the summers or not.

 

Sorry OGE, but that's kind of a pet peeve for me. I'll admit, though, that it is sort of tangential to the topic under discussion.

 

2) I believe kids need time away from the drill-and-kill atmosphere that our schools have often become. They need time when they can avoid the stresses of dealing with the dehumanizing, institutional, atmosphere of American public schools. I don't believe that getting rid of summer vacation would produce mentally and emotionally more healthy kids, although perhaps it would bump up their math proficiency or reading levels by a grade or two.

 

3) I also believe it is the parents' responsibility to ensure that their children don't let their brains rot over the summers. Too many parents have no problem with children playing video games 10 hours a day all summer. No wonder the kids are drooling idiots when September rolls around.

 

4) I believe there are many paths to knowledge. Holding a job, traveling to other parts of the state/country/world, enrolling in some special program, going to camp, learning a skill, or just cruising the neighborhood and spending time with family can all produce a rich and valuable fabric to draw from, as people grow up. I know that what I learned in my various summer experiences was at least as valuable to me as what I learned in school - in some cases, it even caused me to realize the worth of what I was learning in school. Those experiences made me who I am, in ways far more powerful than anything that happened in school. I wouldn't trade that for anything.

 

5) It cannot be deniend that most wealthy democratic countries have school years that are almost 1/3 longer than ours. And having studied in other countries' school systems, I also know they're a whole lot more intense than the typical American school experience. I don't think we serve our students well by giving them so MUCH less education, and more to the point, by giving them such uneven quality of education, in comparison to the rest of the world.

 

But take away summer? That would be the final straw that would cause me to homeschool my kid.

 

 

[packsaddle]

I'm in Lisa's situation as well. I kind of like it. If I'm good I can earn in the summer from consulting as much as I make through the rest of the year teaching. Or more. Summer pay is as good as I want to make it. Or I can travel. I have to say that life as an academic is about as good as it can get. We live the life of Riley, whoever that was. I can't figure out why I am surrounded by such a sea of constant complainers.

 

When I was in high school (back in the Carboniferous) most of the teachers had summer jobs that were unrelated to teaching. Many of the men drove Greyhound buses and made more during that time than they did teaching. The women, I don't know, sold Bibles or something, maybe they worked construction. These people were in education because they were dedicated to an ideal...obviously not for the money.

But my kids are done so I couldn't care less about year-round school. That freedom is really nice. If summer camps close, big deal. They can just be cut up and sold for vacation home development or something.

[OldGreyEagle]

Sorry Guys, I only know what I experienced. When I was teaching at Indiana State University-Evansville, now known as the University of Southern Indiana I was told I was paid for 12 months and I better work it and that was the way it was in all schools. I didnt know better so maybe I do now.

 

I was the technical director of Education for the Radiologic Technology program there in the School of Allied Health. Seems quite a few of the professors in the Humanities Dept didnt like us being part of the University. Seems they thought we belonged in a technical school because of our limited curriculm. Seems actually giving students employable skills was not what an University education is all about. Nothing like being told you dont belong in a faculty senate meeting

 

I lived and learned there, I do as well here.

 

PS I was on the Economic benefits committee while I was there. Seems the only thing I got out of it was there were no economic benefits to teaching

[BrentAllen]

"While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.

Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests -- Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days)."

http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/62341797.html

[Beavah]

Yah, I second BrentAllen and Lisabob.

 

Da issue with schools has very little to do with number of days, it has to do with how those days are used. I remember readin' one thing from the international comparisons - when foreign teachers were shown videos of U.S. classrooms, they were appalled at the number of interruptions, special days, distractions, and disciplinary issues. It's not the time, it's how we use it.

 

I'd hate to see the kids subjected to even less efficient time doin' the classroom drill-and-kill, at the expense the kind of deeper learnin' summer enrichment and programs like Scouting provide.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

Lisa, I have to remember this one:

 

No wonder the kids are drooling idiots when September rolls around.

 

I'm on track with you and pack and Brent and Beavah. Getting the bang out of the buck of teaching days.

 

I was amazed as EagleSon went through 7-12 how many "teacher work days" (NO SCHOOL FOR KIDS DAYS) there were...

 

 

[Eagle92]

Yep way to many interruptions, lack of discipline, extraneous items coming about, mandatory testing, year round schools, All reasona for homeschooling.

 

What I found sad was this. In the New Orleans Metro area #1) I was constantly asked 'Why you want to be a teacher, do something productive with your life?" And that was from teachers and #2 Folks would ratehr work in the parochial/private schools makign 1/3 less than their public school peers, because the better work environment made up for the lousy pay.

[Oak Tree]

Our area has moved to a lot of year-round schools for both elementary and middle school. People complained about it, but everyone adapts. I have kids in high school (traditional schedule) and elementary (year-round) so that limits the time we can take family vacations, but it's not as bad as I first thought.

 

For Scouts, it does affect summer camp schedules. Everyone gets the fourth of July week off, so we can try to go to camp that week. Or if you can get the kids on Track 4, they get July off. Some troops will offer two different weeks of summer camp to try to deal with this.

 

We have a real mix of kids in our troop - I don't have the stats, but I'd guess it's like 1/4 home schooled, 1/4 private school (all traditional schedule), 1/4 public school (traditional), and 1/4 public school (year-round). So the year-round schedule usually prevents a few of our Scouts from coming to summer camp. I do see it as becoming something of an issue for summer camps in general, but I predict they'll figure it out.

 

Our situation wouldn't affect Philmont much, because our high schools aren't going year-round (and I see no movement in that direction).