Respect for the Office

[OldGreyEagle]

And this differs from the choices GW faced how?

[nolesrule]

Well, GW took the third option. Ignore both and go on vacation.

[OldGreyEagle]

So, thats the best argument rebuttal out there?

 

For 8 years when GW was president, the Democrats made fun of him, he was stupid, he was a drunk, he is a liar, he was to be the end of western civilization as we knew it. Then Obama gets elected and the Republicans get told by the Democrats, we won now, this is what it is like when you lose, get used to it. Hey, I remember 8 years of Clinton, I know what its like to lose. It's not like the Demorats have never had a president in the Oval Office

 

So when Obama gets critisized, now, it's racist? It's not respecting the presidency? Gern is correct, for some, the only thing Obama can do to make some people happy is resign, Bush also had that contingent nipping at his heals constantly. There was always some move to impeach Bush and now apparetnly the acrimony has switched over to Obama and there is surprise?

 

If indeed you sow what you reap, who should be surprised at the tone of politics? Is this is the future of Political discourse in this country, to have James Carville-esque types pilloring the opposition at every turn? To make fun of a persons past? To have as your only retort a slam against the other guy?

 

When do we talk turkey instead of calling everyone who disagrees with us a turkey?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[packsaddle]

"When do we talk turkey...?" We could start right here and right now. I'd be delighted.

[OldGreyEagle]

Gobble, Gobble, Gobble, ...

[skeptic]

Seems to me that the Turks have made it pretty clear they do not want us there. Of course that would just be another boondoggle anyway, if we got dragged into the Kurdish issues more directly.

[packsaddle]

According to the Turkish diplomats and political types I met this summer in Turkey, their opposition to our intervention has more to do with their concern over destabilization of the region than for any kind of animosity toward the USA. They support diplomatic solutions and are positioned politically and geographically to act as the mediator (for want of a better term) between conflicting entities. They seemed very friendly toward the USA while I was there but that might have been due to our new President.

The Turks are smart and they know the region and the players. I'm hoping to be able to work with them in the future.

[AlFansome]

Turkey is a fascinating study these days in that it is a 99.8% Muslim population with a pretty-close-to-secular government that's kept that way (in part) by the influence of the military. They desire to be seen as part of Europe and more Western, yet still are rooted in a heritage that is substantially different than that of Europe. They are a democracy, yet don't have freedom of speech nor of the press. They(historically) have been a friend of Israel, yet that's changed quickly after the Turkish PM did a smack-down of the Israeli PM in public a few months ago. Oil companies here in the US lobby on their behalf with regard to recognizing the Armenian genocide and of course, they buy our weapons. In addition to having the baggage of the Armenian question, they also have big issues with the Kurds if they wish to stabilize their internal politics.

 

Like I said...lots of moving parts makes it an interesting area of study.

[Beavah]

Yah, if we're talkin' Turkey, they also have a small but proud national scouting organization, which has connections with and follows da democratic traditions of their military.

 

http://www.tif.org.tr/eng/home.html

 

B

 

[packsaddle]

One of the interesting things I saw was that their parks have open-air exercise equipment like eliptical trainers, etc. I guess you can get away with that in arid climates. But it was really interesting to see the people using the equipment...on more than a few occasions, women with both arms and legs working away - one in short gym shorts and tank top next to another, covered head to toe...in black. Wow.

[Hal_Crawford]

Pack:

Where were you in Turkey? It was 50 years ago but I remember seeing snow on the ground when I lived in Ankara.

 

Hal

[packsaddle]

I was in the west and around the Aegean. I was attending a conference in Istanbul (great food, by the way) but I have a friend who lives in the southern central part of the country. I'm hoping to get back soon to travel out as far as Nusaybin (the ancient name, Nisibis) because of the Grgarbonizra River which caused the area to be of strategic importance, taken and then retaken by different empires, Justinian's history in particular. The narrow gorge and the road through it was the only way through those mountains at that time and I am interested in the link between the distribution and natural structure of water resources and the history associated with them. There is so, so much to see and learn over there.