Civil Air Patrol & BSA dual charter

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Some interesting discussions here:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7716.20

 

The gist is, some people say that CAP membership overrules the BSA membership requirements in a joint charter, while others say members have to meet the requirements of both.

 

Since CAP is part of the US government, they can't discriminate against atheists, so either joint charters have to allow atheists, or they all have to go.

 

I'll be checking into this.

[shortridge]

By my reading of the thread linked above, the term "joint charter" is a misnomer. It sounds as though the CAP units are actually the chartered organization, and apply their own rules to take precedence over the BSA's. Isn't that a local option?

 

Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of how CAP units work.

[GernBlansten]

We have a local Venture crew who is affiliated with CAP. Not sure the arrangement. It actually seemed strange to me why they would even consider themselves Scouts. The CAP is an entirely independant organization and doesn't need any of the benefits Scouts provides. If you run your Venture crew as a unit of CAP, what's the purpose? Just run it as a CAP unit.

[skeptic]

Tend to agree that there is some kind of confusion here. I have never heard of a dual charter; I have heard of dual chartering organizations, but they still have to adhere to the BSA charter partner agreement. Like two small churches agreeing to sponsor one unit. It would seem to me that the CAP would be chartered as a CAP unit, and the Venture Crew as Ventures. Could they do things together? Why not? They simply would do what needed to be done to make dual activities workable.

 

But, if somehow a CAP group wanted to charter a Venture Crew, they would still have to adhere to BSA rules, and they would then have a possible conflict within their own group. Cannot see a council even allowing it, frankly.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

One of the articles has this:

Quote from: CAPR 52-16, Section 6.2

6-2. CAP Policy for Dual-Chartering With the Boy Scouts of America. CAP and the Venturing and Varsity divisions of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) have much in common. CAP encourages dual membership in both CAP and BSA as either a Varsity Scouting Team or Venturing Crew, with CAP being the chartered partner. By being the chartered partner, CAP is the basis for the union; therefore, members first belong to CAP. The existing CAP structure does not change and all members will conform to CAP standards and wear the CAP uniform.

 

This is also at

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R052_016_9D037830938CC.pdf

 

It looks like there are some CAP Venturing units in Maryland.

[John-in-KC]

About 1/2 mile from where I sit, there is a CAP youth squadron. It also charters as a BSA Venturing Crew.

 

Why? Access to resources. Our Council has 1200 acres of wildnerness within 20 miles of where I sit, and it's inside the urban area now. High COPE, GPS land nav, survival camping... climbing tower... weapons ranges. Yes, CAP can rent it outside a BSA Charter, but the cost is exponentially greater. We have another reservation with 1000s of acres of wildnerness within two road hours of where I sit... same facilities and more so.

 

So, Merlyn, if you forbid CAP youth squadrons from concurrently chartering as Venturing Crews, where do you propose they get the physical resources to do some of their activities from? DOD is going to be cutting its budget soon, not increasing it.

 

In the case of this particular CAP youth squadron, the Chartered Partner is actually the local VFW post... so technically the CAP is not in the BSA loop.

 

 

[GernBlansten]

JohnKC,

I see HUGE problems with that scenario. CAP cannot discriminate by religion or sexual orientation as it is a government program. But if it partners with the BSA, they must. Sorry, but this is one marriage that is not practical, nor legal.

 

[scoutldr]

I read a little about the CAP...they are the "official Auxiliary of the US Air Force" and "congressionally chartered, government supported, nonprofit organization". The aircraft that they use are not military, but privately registered. Youth and adults can join and participate. Adult ranks are the same as military ranks, but reflect tenure and training, rather than command authority. Similar to the USCG Auxiliary. I agree, sounds like not a good mix.

[shortridge]

Well, BSA meets two of those three descriptions - as a congressionally-chartered nonprofit organization. Sound pretty similar, actually.

[John-in-KC]

From what I've seen...

 

- The CAP youth love COPE/climbing.

 

- They love Venturing camps. Time for all to let their hair down.

 

- They love not having to scramble for outdoor space to do training.

 

- They love that the outdoor space is not a grassy pool table surrounding a runway.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

So, Merlyn, if you forbid CAP youth squadrons from concurrently chartering as Venturing Crews, where do you propose they get the physical resources to do some of their activities from?

 

I propose they do something legal, like use an Explorer Post instead of a Venture Crew. Would a Post get the same access? If so, problem solved. If not, they can't use an illegal arrangement, even if it's convenient to do so.

[BadenP]

When I was a DE I had two units, explorer posts, in one of my districts that had been issued special charters for activities normally not allowed by the BSA, martial arts and extreme wilderness survival aimed at troubled and deliquent teens, so you see there is a method already in place to grant exclusions. A CAP unit chartered as an explorer post would indeed resolve any conflict between BSA and CAP regulations since posts are not bound by the exclusionary rules of the BSA.

[Eamonn]

A few years back I was asked by our local CAP group if I'd visit with them and talk about the advantages of them becoming a Venturing unit.

I don't know very much about the CAP.

From what these local guys said, which might or might not be right. There was a change in the way the CAP was set up.

It had to do with they they received their funding.

The group I talked with really had no interest in Venturing, but wanted to able to do fund raising events. Something they said they weren't allowed to do as a CAP group.

Other than adding a "Paper Unit" to the number of units in the District, I seen little or no advantage to them becoming a BSA unit.

The CAP did meet at the local American Legion building. The American Legion was /is the CO for a Pack and a Troop.

When I spoke with the American Legion, it seemed that they hadn't given any thought to chartering a Crew.

I think all CAP groups somehow, someway come under the USAF.

If this is the case? The memo that came out a few years back would forbid the BSA from chartering a CAP unit.

Eamonn.

Having just read the link that was posted.

It seems that the CAP and the USAF never got the memo!(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[BadenP]

A CAP unit is not under the auspices of the USAF, they are an independent civilian organization with their own chain of command. If asked they can assist any military or civilian law enforcement agency, except for enforcement duties. So they are eligible to charter a BSA unit. Where are the Air Scouts when you need them, lol. CAP also has access to resources that few if any scout unit could muster on their own, and that's where this partnership becomes so valuable.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

CAP employees are paid by the US Air Force, congress decides how CAP is run (and currently the board of directors is appointed by CAP senior members and the Secretary of the Air Force), and CAP has its own nondiscrimination policy that includes religion.

 

I disagree that they can legally charter a discriminatory BSA unit.