Illegal Immigrants

[le Voyageur]

 

Wow!!! What are you talking about????? Your post is rambling, fragmented, and incoherent!!!!!(This message has been edited by Le Voyageur)

[eghiglie]

America has had trouble with immigrants since shortly after the Constitution was signed and most likely even in 1775. Some of the administrations tried to fix it, others didn't even acknowledge it.

 

Many of you have posted some great ideas and they should be sent to Congress, but wait we already have a ton of laws on the books that can't or won't be enforced.

 

There is no easy and quick answer to this.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

"There is no easy and quick answer to this."

 

That is probably the only truthful and final answer on the subject!

 

 

[NWScouter]

Do you if you arent a relative of US citizen you more the likely will not be able to immigrate legally. Even then the waits can be well beyond ten years from certain countries like Mexico or the Philippines. The only quick way in is by refugee, asylum status and by taking high tech jobs away from Americans (H1B visa).

 

Up until the 1920s anyone could immigrate here unless you were undesirable, criminals (including political), sick (TB etc.) and oh, Japanese and Chinese (since the 1880s). The first comprehensive immigration law was in the 20s, we decided that we needed to protect against un-American, low-wage foreigners. So they set up quotas for immigration based on ethnic groups already here. High quotas for Northern European Protestants cause they made the best Americans (still not sure about the Irish), let in only a few of those Southern European Catholics and Eastern European Slavs and Jews, and still exclude the Japanese and Chinese.

 

The reality is the Americans have always decided that we have enough people here and keep those that arent like us out.

 

[BadenP]

All of us here come from immigrant stock including the Pilgrims who came on their own and stole their land from the Indians. Technically all the early settlers to America were unwanted and illegal immigrants who moved out the indigeneous people from their land.

 

As far as illegal hispanic and asian aliens of today are concerned why should they obey the law when employers and religious groups, one in particular, in our country offer them asylum and jobs. The sad part is their own people are making big money smuggling them into this country. There is no way federal law enforcement can keep them all out, less than 10% are ever caught according to INS/ICE reports. The governor of Texas has sent the Texas Rangers and the state militia to patrol their border since he claims the feds won't do the job. So what is the answer? Nobody really knows how to bring this mess under control, including the government.

[packsaddle]

Many years ago a new, extremely-adaptable species emerged in Africa and swarmed over the planet in a relatively short time, devouring every resource it could, often to the detriment to both the resource and to itself. This is my one-sentence history of man.

To the buffalo, passenger pigeons, forests, plains, wooly mammoth, chestnuts, and countless others, ALL humans would probably be viewed as unwanted vermin, possibly worse than the diseases and rats and other 'camp followers' that came with us.

This is an exam day and I AM in the mood.

[Eamonn]

Here where I live illegal immigration is not a hot topic.

While most of the people who live here claim to come from good Italian and or Polish stock. The only immigrant they have met in the last quarter century is me!

I have my green card, complete with a picture of my ear and a thumb print to prove that I am indeed legal.

Moving to this side of the pond wasn't my idea. I can blame HWMBO for that one.

At the time her Grandparents were still alive and her Dad had just been diagnosed with lung cancer. So we left England.

 

When we first got married I had wanted us to move to South Africa. Some friends of mine had made that move and were doing very well there. She of course said no!

My thinking at that time was that it was better that we both be foreigners than just one of us!

We were married in the UK (I at times take great pleasure in reminding her that I'm the one who married a foreigner!)

She of course had visited England a few times before the wedding. She arrived in England about a week before the big day.

At London Heathrow Airport, she informed the guy who was checking passports that she was getting married and was planning to live in the UK.

He smiled, wished us well and said that after we were married we needed to go to the Social Security Office near to where we lived with her passport and a copy of the marriage certificate.

A week or so after the wedding we went to this office, met with a really nice fellow. He looked at her passport and the marriage certificate, placed a stamp in her passport which gave her permission to live and work in the UK.

End of story.

When we decided to move to the USA.

I went to the American Embassy in London.

Came away with a ton of paper work.

First I needed to have a background check making sure that I wasn't an ex-Nazi or a communist. At that time the cost was 75.00. I paid the man.

After the check and it was found that I didn't belong to the Nazi Party I had to raise my right hand and swear that I wasn't a member of the Nazi or any other undesirable party again the man was happy to take another 75.00

Then I had to see a Doctor that was approved by the American Government to ensure that I wasn't carrying some nasty disease, it seems my family Quack wasn't good enough! This Quack was happy to take 240.00 of my hard earned money.

Next I needed to have a chest X-Ray, again from the list that was provided, it had to be read by another approved Doc. Again I put my hand in my pocket and left being 350.00 the poorer.

I had to raise my right hand a couple more times swearing something or another?? Each raise of the hand cost me another 75.00 (Remember this was 25 years back, what the cost is now? I have no idea.

I then had to prove that for the next ten years after I arrived in the USA that I wouldn't become a "Public Charge".

Being as HWMBO and myself didn't have any idea about what type of jobs we might get when we got here. I provided evidence that the trust fund my Father had set up for me was good and enough to live on. These papers all had to be notarized, being as we don't have Notaries in the UK and a local Judge wasn't good enough. I went back to the American Embassy and left, leaving more of my hard earned money behind.

We were told that the wait for a visa/green card would take about two years. Then without any notice a letter arrived saying that the visa was approved and was only good for 90 days. If I wasn't here in the USA within the 90 days I'd have to do everything again.

You can imagine trying to sell up everything, pack up everything and do it all within 90 days!

 

Somehow it just didn't seem fair.

All she had to do was see the nice man with passport and marriage certificate in hand. While I had to jump through all sorts of hoops.

It didn't cost her a penny to get a visa to live and work in the UK, while I paid through the nose at every step of the way.

I was fortunate that I was able to afford it.

I can't imagine how some poor dirt farmer in Guatemala ever would?

I do get a little peeved when I read about illegal immigrants.

Mainly because I remember what I went through to do it the right way and what it cost me.

But at the same time I can't help thinking if the process wasn't such a pain? Maybe more people would be willing to do it the right way.

A visit to a nice man armed with the right papers would be so much better.

Eamonn.

(I still hold dual English and Irish citizenship. I'm unwilling to give this up. Even though I have been here for 25 years and my son is an American and the USA has been more than kind to me.

Yes I still pay all the taxes that you pay!

No I'm not sending every last penny overseas to support any group that in any way wants to do harm to anyone!)

[scoutldr]

And we're glad you came, Eamonn! Funny accent and all!

[boomerscout]

weren't the Native Americans also immigrants to this land? Didn't later waves of them push out the earlier waves?

Not all Hispanics are illegal aliens. Many were already in this land for generations when John Smith landed at Jamestown.

[packsaddle]

Boomerscout wrote, "weren't the Native Americans also immigrants to this land?"

Yes, and more indigenous people are still arriving for the first time.

[le Voyageur]

weren't the Native Americans also immigrants to this land? Didn't later waves of them push out the earlier waves?

Not all Hispanics are illegal aliens. Many were already in this land for generations when John Smith landed at Jamestown.

 

Both terms, Latino, and Hispanics are modern constructs, with the term Latino being adopted in 1997 by the US Government to replace the term Hispanic (a person from Hispaniola). Either term can be used to denote a person of Latin America, or of Spanish speaking descent. Within Mexico, there are 62 indigenous groups, as well as groups that are a mix of these indigenous people with Europeans, which makes Mexico a modern Babel.

In a nutshell, the immigration bruha in progress in nothing more then an other Indian war, and a continuation of apartheid America's Manifest Destiny protecting it's colonial boarders. It's ironic that Americans of European descent who's ancestors flooded this continent, pushing out the orginal inhabinets are now the beseiged. What goes around, comes around....(This message has been edited by Le Voyageur)

[NWScouter]

The borders of our country have always been porous. With us trying to stop Mexican migration northward; we are trying to stop something thats been happening for hundreds of years. The recent change in the last 30 years or so is that more are crossing because there is more work for them. When I was a child in Washington State when had the same if not more seasonal farm work, but not a much Mexican labor. I have seen pictures of migrant hop pickers in Issaquah in the 20s and 30s, they where not Mexican but what you would call more American, of European and African origins. I had cousins who picked berries as teenagers for school clothes. Remember the book Of Mice and Men. At some time Americans decided not to do the work and in the case of teenagers it was deemed too dangerous. If you want fresh fruit and vegetable from the US we have to have the pickers.

 

Americans though dont like migrants of any kind. In the Dust Bowl years of the 20s and 30s many states, California comes to mind, tried to keep the Okies and others out.

(This message has been edited by nwscouter)

[SSScout]

"Illegal Immigration"

 

Why is it such a problem?

 

Because people want to leave their country and come to the US of A, any way they can.

 

Any solution must/could/should include some or all of the following:

 

1) Make the US of A less attractive. This means a) eliminating the many of the freedoms we enjoy. Need more government intrusion into our lives and activities. More travel restrictions among the states. Perhaps an internal passport (among other things). b) Define the way an American can worship. Too many choices in relating to God/Spirit/Creator/Nature makes ones life too complicated anyway. c) Restrict the way people can EARN a living. Tax more, make job choices harder, eliminate union negotiation power, the bosses and "market" should determine pay anyway. d) Don't worry so much about sanitation/health/medical treatment. We live too long as it is. e) Give the police and other law enforcement agencies a free rein in dealing with bad guys. That might make us more safe, huh? And help eliminate the backlog in court cases. f) Allow kids to drop out of school earlier. Fire a few more teachers, we spend too much money on our spoiled brats anyway. More students per class means more efficient use of personnel.

2) Make it harder to enter the US of A. Hire more border guards, build higher fences, patrol boats are needed, reactivate the shore batteries (Fort Monroe) and improve our radar and visual monitoring of the coastlines. Eliminate customs (allow NO ONE in), cut off all international travel. Why do we need it anyway? Don't we already have everything we need right here ?

3) Help other countries make it more attractive for their people to stay home. Insist that US industries pay a living wage (the same as a US worker?) in the factories they utilize in other countries. Allow US unions to investigate labor abuses over seas. Help the other governments build trust with their people. Insist on humane treatment of all prisoners. Reinvigorate the Peace Corps to help improve health and sanitary conditions in foriegn lands. Insist that aid sent actually is used for the purpose intended. Use military force sparingly. Have the courage to point out the abuses of power when they occur and to admit them when they occur with ourselves. Support governments that treat their people well and equitably and do not support those that do not.

4) Be charitable to people when it is needed, and as a nation live up to our ideals.

 

I believe it was Woodrow Wilson who said that "the business of America is business". Perhaps that definition needs to be revisited.

[BadenP]

pack

 

I think you better check the definition of "indigeneous people" because your last post is not only miswritten, it is totally inaccurate.

[packsaddle]

Think about the idea that a 'native' American can also be an 'immigrant' and then put the twinkle in my eye as I wrote my reply.