Illegal Immigrants

[Beavah]

Yah, I reckon part of da problem is the quotas, eh?

 

We'll let in Swedes. They're good, hardworkin' blue-eyed blonde white protestants, eh? They're just not clamorin' to come to da U.S. Better medical coverage in Sweden.

 

But we keep da numbers low on Latinos. They're Spanish-speakin' dark-skinned undereducated Catholics, eh?

 

Thing is, whether it was Anglos, or Germans, or Irish, or Italians, or Latinos, da folks who want to come to da U.S. in large numbers are adventurous folks who don't have opportunities in their home country. My ancestors and yours. So long as relatively close neighboring countries are economic backwaters, their citizens who want to work and care for their family are goin' to want to come to da U.S., even if it means workin' for half the wage of any citizen at tough jobs that most Americans would never consider. From da Irish and Chinese who built the railroads to the Latinos who pick our California fruit.

 

If yeh really want to get a handle on da situation, yeh do somethin' like Spiney suggests. Yeh increase da legal quota by a big amount. Make it easier to come legally, work hard, pay taxes, eventually earn citizenship. Continue to spend enough to make it annoying to come illegally. Then folks have a reasonable choice, eh? If yeh add to that continued support for free trade, so they've got a shot at workin' hard and supportin' their family while staying in their own country, and we might get a handle on da issue.

 

Of course that sorta thing is what everybody who's looked at the issue has proposed, only to be shouted down by those whippin' up people's emotions to score political points rather than actually solve da problem. In the couple years since that mob killed da last immigration reform bill, have we seen 'em propose anything? Seen any progress at all? Nope. They're just da S.O.P. Stupid Obstructionist Party.

 

Beavah

 

[BrentAllen]

Hey, thanks for the lecture on civility in the other thread, there, Beavah. Nice to see you practicin' what ya preach, eh? Or does the little smiley face make it ok to go name calling? Is that what Joe Wilson should have done, just tossed out a smiley face after calling Obama a liar? :-)

[Beavah]

Yah, just to be clear, da smiley face means "joking", "said with a laugh", etc.

 

And da S.O.P. above refers to members of both the Republican and Democratic parties, eh? Bein' dumb and obstructionist is an equal-opportunity thing.

 

We now return yeh to the immigration policy discussion which was briefly interrupted.

 

B

 

[sherminator505]

I too would like to see employers punished severely for hiring illegals. Case in point - the Hormel plant in Utah. Yeah, sure, they made a pretty good show of deporting the illegal employees, but did we hear one word about what the government did to Hormel? Wonder why? I do...

[vol_scouter]

While it would be difficult to go after all small business owners, larger businesses would be easier. In that case, make the CEO and the Board of directors responsible - big business will change their practices overnight.

[SctDad]

Yes, the Statue of Liberty say to bring your weak and tired.

 

For the most part they came throught the front door on ellis island, Learned English, became citizens, and pay taxes.

 

My main point is if I do something Illegal, I go to jail. Why are thses illegal immigrants different. I pay taxes, but cannot get medical assistance.

 

Find the illegals. Deport them back to mexico and secure the border with military force.

[scoutldr]

Just to be fair, not all illegals are Mexican. How many illegal Canadians walk across the border? I read of one border crossing, unmanned, where there was a little shack with a logbook in it. If you were crossing the border, you were asked to go to the shack and sign the log book...honor system. To be fair...what's good for the Mexicans is good for the Canadians. I traveled to Canada back in June for a professional conference. At customs in the airport, I was given the third degree...where do you live (street address), where are you going, why are you coming here, how long are you staying, what hotel are you staying at, what is the name of your conference, are you bringing any food or liquor? I thought I was going to be arrested for smuggling in a bag of Cheetos in my briefcase. I was also warned ahead of time not to try to access their medical system..."do not go to the Dr...you will not be seen, and if you need to go to the ER, you will need cash in advance or they will not see you." That was the week that the passport laws went into effect and the Canadians were insulted...maybe this was not so subtle retaliation.

 

I expect no less from our Government when people try to enter our country.

[John-in-KC]

SctDad,

 

Be careful of what you ask for, you might get it. You really, really do not want the Posse Comitatus Act repealed, and the Armed Forces acting as a police force.

 

That lovely law is one of the hard checks on a President's authority, he does not have a Federal military to put down rebellion inside the United States. When you see Army National Guard troops on riot duty, they are in State service, paid for by their individual taxpayers.

 

I don't care who is at the White House... an Army enable to conduct real campaigns inside our borders is a bad thing.

[scoutldr]

Right. And the plan to circumvent Posse Comitatus is to "build a civilian security force that is at least as well funded and equipped as the US Military." Probably headed by a non-confirmed Security Czar.

[Beavah]

My main point is if I do something Illegal, I go to jail. Why are thses illegal immigrants different. ... Find the illegals. Deport them back to mexico and secure the border with military force.

 

Yah, OK, SctDad.

 

How?

 

There are between 10 and 15 million illegals. Some of whom have U.S. Citizen children.

 

How exactly are yeh going to find them, jail them, and deport them?

 

Our current prisons are mostly full, overflowin' and dangerous in many states. We're often releasing criminals just because we've got nowhere to put 'em. One court case can take a while. How many more lawyers, judges, and clerks will that take?

 

Yeh ready to vote a really big tax increase for all that? Ready to have that huge police force snoopin' around your neighborhood and family?

 

Our borders are huge. Yeh have any idea da size and resources required to secure the borders with military force?

 

Yeh ready to vote another really big tax increase for all that? Ready to vote down Posse Comitatus? Ready to put da current Commander in Chief in charge of the Domestic Military? Ready for someone like Janet Reno to be in charge of all that police and military force?

 

Tell us how to accomplish what yeh want. I'm all for it if there's a practical way, eh? So I'm all ears. How do we do it?

 

Beavah

 

[vol_scouter]

Beavah,

 

The only way is dry up all the jobs for the illegal aliens. I think that we should do a better job than is currently being done on our southern border but I understand that it cannot be 'secured' by reasonable means. The country could make it more difficult though.

[Beavah]

The only way is dry up all the jobs for the illegal aliens.

 

Yah, OK...

 

How?

 

B

 

[GernBlansten]

Vol is right Beavah. And so are you.

How?

 

I just had my roof replaced after a hail storm. I got three bids from local contractors, submitted my claim, got paid and hired the contractor I thought would do the best job. I didn't ask any of them who they hire. I didn't demand documentation. I just wanted my roof repaired for the estimate I was provided.

Well, I suspect that of the 10 men who showed up to do the work, several of them were probably illegal. They did great work. Were very polite. Cleaned up afterwards, the contract was fulfilled. I paid the contractor.

Now should I have done more? Should I have demanded every man on that roof prove his legitimacy? If I did, would my costs have increased? Probably. Greater than the settlement from my insurance company? Surely.

 

Now, same goes for the restaurant I had lunch at today. Do I go in making demands that every employee show documentation? Of course not.

 

But I do think the crime should not go to the alien, but to the employer. If you are caught employing undocumented aliens, you are held criminally liable. If that makes your costs go up, so be it. You will have incentive to turn in your competitors who also break the law. But we the people need to get ready for $15 hamburgers and 40% more expensive home repairs and longer wait times.

 

The alternative is open borders. Allow the workers to ebb and flow with the economic tides. Collect taxes and make their work fully legitimate.

 

I often wonder why the outrage at illegal immigration too. Do these people really take work from you? They might take it from my kids, but heck, they wouldn't do a great job anyhow. And man, when my roofers took their lunch break, they broke out the grill and cooked up some great smelling carne asada.

[eghiglie]

The US has had illegal immigrants for quite some time, over 200 years or so.

 

Solving it is very complex and there are no easy answers to this. But we have become complacent with the very cheap labor they provide.

 

When my grandpa first came in 1911 he told me that there were tons of advertisements for skilled folks to help build the US infrastructure. Millions of these people came, lived in slums, were preyed on by criminal elements from brethren who also came from his home country. They sent their kids to school to become better. Many of these immigrants also left because the US was not an easy place. The ad about streets paved with gold lied.

 

Yet there were illegals to deal with back then.

 

[scoutldr]

And did Grandpa expect free healthcare, and free education for his kids, conducted in their native language? Did he expect free or nearly free college tuition and other "affirmative action" programs, because he CHOSE to immigrate here?