Courtesy and Civility

[Narraticong]

I do stand corrected. President Carter used the words "overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man" rather than "majority". I guess we can quibble over the meaning, but I think maybe I was close...

 

Yesterday Carter went on to speak about a radical fringe element attacking the President. He referred to some saying we should "bury Obama with Kennedy". He was likely referring to the thousands of people protesting in Washington. In the video, I saw no signs saying we should bury Obama with Kennedy. There were signs saying we should bury OBAMACARE with Kennedy. Distasteful? Sure. But a far cry from being a personal attack on Mr. Obama. There were plenty of other signs saying "Throw all the bums out", or "Re-elect Nobody". In other words, Mr. Carter wants to see this as an attack on Obama. In reality, it is something much bigger. It seems "The People" may finally be waking up and letting it be known that our of control spending will no longer be tolerated from either side of the aisle.

 

The Republicans should not be getting comfortable that they will make great strides in the mid-term election. If this protest continues, anyone running for office, from any party, will need to prove to be fiscally very conservative. In the end, this is not about Obama. It is about the people demanding fiscal responsibilty from their elected officials.

 

Ken

[BadenP]

Eisley

I think you can add quite a few others to your list for the so called "worst president", oh lets see Reagan, Nixon, and GW come to mind, each led our country into serious financial crisis and a total mistrust of the government bureacracy.

 

Brent, I have witnessed first hand severe racial prejudice in the south unlike any I have seen in other parts of the country, which is sad because there are also many very kind people there as well.

[GernBlansten]

The Republican party has not given me any reason I should vote for any of their candidates. When they start offering solutions instead of criticism, perhaps they will change my mind. The simple fact that they closed ranks around Wilson cemented my impression of them.

[eisely]

Gern,

 

Do you really believe that members of congress who think that they should not read the bills they vote on would be interested in a dramatic reading of their own rules?

[BrentAllen]

I saw a reporter from Reason magazine on the news last night, discussing whether or not the protests against Obama are racist in nature. I thought he made some interesting observations. This is what he said:

 

MATT WELCH, Reason Magazine: Here's how I approach the problem. If this is true, if there's a significant percentage of people who are motivated by, let's say, racial anxiety, not outright racism, in their opposition to Obama, then what else would we see? How would we expect that to manifest itself?

 

I would expect it to manifest itself at minimum with people expressing, whether it's in their signage or in their conversation, concerns about hot-button racial issues: affirmative action, immigration, welfare queens, and whatnot.

 

What I saw going out in the crowd and actually talking to people was almost none of that. We saw a lot of different signs out there, but the vast majority of people that I talked to and the displays that they were making was actually pretty coherent. They were against government overreach and spending in their lives and in the economy.

 

And I saw a precious little -- and I even tried to tease people out, like, "Ah, what do you think about that Obama character? Is he legitimate? Is he not?" A lot of people said, "Hey, I like the guy. I disagree with his policies."

 

So I have a hard time going to the next step and assuming that their motivation is something that is somehow sublimated that I can't measure.

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec09/rage_09-16.html

[sherminator505]

"I don't believe I have ever heard a racial epithet directed at him, even by people who detest his policies."

 

Wow! This comment sounds like it came from someone who is either really sheltered or really naive. You should try going to an anti-Obama rally sometime. If you do, I am sure that you will see several signs with racist caricatures of the President and hear more than a few racist epithets.

 

That said, I really don't believe that Congressman Wilson and his supporters are racist at all. They are simply disrespectful of the institution of Congress and what it represents (that is, the American people).

[Kahuna]

Sherminator I guess you're right. I must be sheltered and naive, because I've never been to an anti-Obama rally. Why would I? I'm not anti-Obama. I'm against his policies and those of the Democratic Congress, but not him personally. In fact, I'm so sheltered and naive that I'm not even aware of any anti-Obama rallies. I wonder why you go to them.

[sherminator505]

Kahuna, I haven't been to one, either, as I am not anti-Obama either. I can only go by the descriptions from the scant reporting that they receive. But feel free to tell yourself whatever you need to to get through the day. You wouldn't be the first to deny the obvious in a vain attempt to ignore it, or perhaps a cynical attempt to further a certain point of view...(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[BrentAllen]

Kahuna,

Sherminator must be getting his news from the same source as Pelosi. You know, all those swastikas and evil people at Town Hall meetings.

 

Hey sherminator, did you see my post with the reporting from Reason mag? He was out looking for what you imagined would be at a conservative protest rally, and he said it simply wasn't there. If you have a source for the racial epithets, please post.

[sherminator505]

I'm not saying that racism is the main component of people's opposition to Obama or even a major component. I am saying that racism is present as an undercurrent and it is intellectually dishonest to simply dismiss it out of hand.

 

You can believe what you want and deny what you want. Will you also deny that slavery or the Holocaust happened, or is there some intermediate point at which you draw your line? And why is it important where you draw that line anyway?(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[BrentAllen]

Well, sherminator, your tune sure has changed. First you said you were "sure" we would see racism at a protest rally. Then you said it would be "obvious." Now it is an "undercurrent." And all this from some scant reports you were seeing, which I have asked you to cite. Which is it?

 

Slavery and the holocaust have been documented. You haven't documented anything.

[sherminator505]

Brent,

 

Look at the poster depicted in the link and ask yourself this question:

 

Were there posters of Bill or Hillary Clinton that looked like this? How about Ted Kennedy or Harry Truman for that matter? All of them worked on public health care. Why this particular depiction of Obama? Please explain the discrepancy.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/17/obama.witchdoctor.teaparty/index.html?eref=rss_latest

[Kahuna]

I can only go by the descriptions from the scant reporting that they receive.

 

Sherminator: Feel free to watch Fox News. It won't corrupt you, I promise, and they do cover these rallies. They even discussed that picture to which you refer.

 

Sorry, but I think Brent has pretty much downgraded your credibility on this one.

[sherminator505]

On the contrary, Kahuna. Brent has only shown the lengths he will go to to embrace an absolute statement that he knows isn't entirely true because it better reflects his world view. Neither you nor Brent can prove that there is absolutely no racism behing the acidic reaction that Obama is receiving from opponents, yet you stubbornly cling to your statement. And you still haven't answered my question about the poster.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Kahuna]

Sherminator, your logic is underwhelming. I don't know where you got the idea that I am suggesting there is "absolutely no racism" behind opposition to Obama. I'm just saying that most of the opposition is from responsible, civil and non racist people who are scared to death of his policies. Of course there are racists out there and neither you nor I know how many there are. But, as I've said I talk to lots of people, black and white, who dislike the policies and perhaps even dislike Obama, who are not racists.

 

As to the picture, I think you fail to understand how politics works in these times. I have no idea, nor do you, what was in the mind of the person or persons who carried that sign. While I believe that much of the health care proposal propaganda coming out of the administration IS somewhat witch-doctorish, any sane person in these times should understand that the sign could be taken in a racial way.

 

But let me suggest something to you about all this "racism" that I think you have not considered. If I were a member of, say, ACORN or moveon.org, I might go to one of those Tea Parties and carry a sign like that. I might also yell from out of the crowd, "Let's send that (racial epithet deleted) back to Kenya where he was born." And out of a sea of signs and a cacophony of yells, which do you think would be on the evening news, those or the myriad who say "Save us from Obama's healthcare policies?" Or they might just be nutters who like to show off their nuttiness.