So.... the Right says staying in school is bad?

[BrentAllen]

Lisa,

A state party chair? You're kidding, right? Big whoop. I couldn't even tell you who our state GOP party chair is. Those positions are pretty insignificant, at least here in Georgia.

 

I noticed Laura Bush and Newt both endorsed Obama's speech after it was published. I did the same thing yesterday - what's the big deal? The problem was we didn't know what was in it until then, and as I posted earlier in this thread, the Education Sect. admitted they were wrong with what they were doing.

 

The ironic thing is, back in 1991, the Dems had their hissy fit AFTER the speech. They knew it was just about education, but it didn't matter to them - they were out for a pound of flesh. When conservatives saw it was about education, we said no problem. Can you not see the difference?

[SR540Beaver]

Brent,

 

You do realize that the previously proposed materials put out by the Department of Education are not mandated don't you? No school system or teacher is forced to use them. Think of it like the Den Meeting in a Box or the monthly themes put out by BSA. If you don't want to put forth the effort to create your own lesson plan, we have some stuff you can use. Your choice.

[Beavah]

Yah, I liked da president's speech. Say what yeh want about the man, he does give a good speech. If even one out of a thousand young people who heard it take da message to heart, it was a good day for the country.

 

That havin' been said, government education always has that annoyin' twitch at the back of my brain, eh? Deliberately or inadvertently, there is a risk that it can bias its approach in ways that encourage youth to support da government in power. Especially if the government has been in power for a while, and had a hand in establishin' the curriculum and selectin' new hires. And we really do see some pretty odd behavior sometimes in public school leaders, eh?

 

Right now, it's all fairly minor because so many states have local-control laws, with local school boards. But da trend toward more statewide control and nationwide testing/curriculum is a concern. What liberal folks out there are really comfortable with da statewide mandated curriculum in Texas, given some of the odd secessionist leanings of some of da Texas political establishment?

 

I don't like to see political or cultural issues fought out in school curriculum. Just not da place for it. Yah, but there is a risk with government schools that they won't be a safe haven for different viewpoints, eh? I reckon dat's the underlyin' fear that the ridiculous folks on the right are tappin' into. So if we want to stop da ridiculousness, we should be cognizant of that risk and fear. Sayin' "take your kid to private school" is OK for da upper middle class and wealthy, eh? But with taxes supportin' something like $8K per pupil per year for government schooling, that's a lot for other families to try to provide for each child on top of their taxes and other expenses.

 

Beavah

 

[Kahuna]

"The Department of Education should not be producing paid political advertising for the president, it should be helping us to produce smarter students."

 

Richard Gephardt (D-MO), House Majority Leader, 1991, speaking about George H.W. Bush's address to students. Per the Washington Post of the time.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Kahuna, and Gephardt was wrong then, eh?

 

I'm with Lisabob, eh? I just don't get da "You did it first! No, you did it first!" childishness.

 

A bit like when a young scout comes across a piece of garbage in a campsite, and says "Well, I didn't leave it there." And then he leaves it there. Or worse, throws down his own piece of garbage and says "Well, somebody else did it first!"

 

Just not good citizenship or ethics in my book. When you're an American, yeh clean up da mud that your neighbor slung around, because it makes the neighborhood better for everybody. Yeh don't sling more mud and say "Well, he did it first!". If all of us demanded better behavior from those of our own political persuasion/party, maybe we'd be hikin' through less mud, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[BrentAllen]

SR540Beaver,

I'm not sure how the material not being mandated matters in whether it was right or wrong. If, hypothetically, the lessons plans were clearly partisan and political, but not mandated, would that make them ok? I think not.

 

There is already another issue on the radar, where the NEA is supposedly in talks with the White House to steer funding for the Arts in ways that look awfully like propoganda.

 

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/pcourrielche/2009/08/25/the-national-endowment-for-the-art-of-persuasion-patrick-courrielche/

 

As reported from a conference call involving NEA, White House and others,

"We were encouraged to bring the same sense of enthusiasm to these focus areas (health care, energy, environment) as we had brought to Obamas presidential campaign, and we were encouraged to create art and art initiatives that brought awareness to these issues. Throughout the conversation, we were reminded of our ability as artists and art professionals to shape the lives of those around us. The now famous Obama Hope poster, created by artist Shepard Fairey and promoted by many of those on the phone call, and will.i.ams Yes We Can song and music video were presented as shining examples of our groups clear role in the election.

 

Obama has a strong arts agenda, we were told, and has been very supportive of both using and supporting the arts in creative ways to talk about the issues facing the country. We were selected for a reason, they told us. We had played a key role in the election and now Obama was putting out the call of service to help create change. We knew how to make a stink, and were encouraged to do so."

 

Sounds like a propoganda machine to me. So yes, when I see things like this, my radar goes up when Obama want to speak to school kids as a captive audience.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Brent,

 

I'm not up to speed on the NEA thing, so I won't comment on it. The department of education has always churned out lesson suggestions like Johnny Verbeck under both Democratic and Republican administrations. My guess is that it gets overlooked about 99.9% of the time. As noted earlier, The Dems rasied a ruckus about Department of Education "propaganda" when George H W Bush spoke to the school children back in 1991. Both sides do the same thing and complain about the other side. Business as usual. What most people fail to realize is that while the cabinet secretaries change, the multitude of folks working there and churning out material don't change. Many of the same folks who were there under Bush are still there and might go back as far as Carter or Reagan.

[Lisabob]

Brent, you don't get to be state party chair for nothing. This is a big deal in the hierarchy of party organizations. Just because you can't name yours doesn't mean much. Heck, think of all the people who can't name their Senators, but I kind of doubt you'd argue that Senators are not powerful as a result.

 

Anyway, my point was that there are plenty of examples of people in positions of power, authority, and party leadership acting like dolts. This time around, many of those dolts happen to be on the Republican side. In past times, there have been Democrats in that category too. It seems to be one of the few truly non-partisan, equal-opportunity, groups in America. I believe their rallying cry is: Dolts of the country, unite! You have nothing to lose but your credibility.

 

As for who came out in support, when, well you know Mr Greer of FL only made his ridiculous attack on Saturday. The Sunday of Labor Day weekend is a notoriously slow news day. Bush and Gingrich and a number of others came out in public defense of the president's speech and with calls for a little respect on Monday. Unlike many others, neither Bush nor Gingrich spent Saturday and Sunday acting like the sky was falling because the president of the United States had a back-to-school message for students.

 

I'm glad you agree with them now, Brent, but it seems to me there are plenty of folks still all a-tither about the matter. Just yesterday that Greer fellow was still insinuating on CNN that Obama might have been trying to pull a fast one by publishing the transcript of one speech, but actually giving a totally different speech. Yup, he's a dolt alright. Got a membership card to prove it.

 

And I also hope that next time some wild eyed partisan hack starts spouting nonsense, people of all political persuasions will take a deep breath right from the beginning, instead of jumping on board for a day or two, enjoying the ride and bashing away at the "other side" first. Bad marks, in my book. Certainly evidence that someone is a dolt-enabler, and maybe on the path to full membership in the Dolt society, too.

 

[gcnphkr]

My kids (16 & 14) object to it because the President is preachy and boring. The son says they are "getting" to watch it tomorrow. The daughter is laughing because they are not going to watch it at her school. The more Mr. Obama talks the less the youth like him. He has gone from cool dude to boring geezer in record time.

 

After reading the speach yesterday I have to agree with them. A "president's minute" would have served him better.(This message has been edited by jet526)

[evmori]

I think my state party chair is Casio! No wait! That's my state party calculator!

[Hal_Crawford]

"My kids (16 & 14) object to it because the President is preachy and boring"

 

Bad news Jet, though they might not tell you, they also think you are preachy and boring. As they get older they will find you preachier and more boring (not to mention stupid and clueless). There opinion of you will probably continue to decline until they are on their own and/or have children. Then they will begin to think that you have learned a lot in the intervening years.

 

Hal

[gcnphkr]

LOL! No news there, I've been preachy, boring and very much a geezer for years.

[Hal_Crawford]

See, you have more in common with President Obama than you thought (and so do I).

 

Hal

[Kahuna]

Beavah writes: "Yah, Kahuna, and Gephardt was wrong then, eh?"

 

Yes, he was, but the thrust of the thread is that it's the Right that causes all the trouble for Obama. IMHO, it's whatever party is not in power. Which is exactly the reason presidents just shouldn't do this kind of stuff.

 

Kind of goes back to the thread on political parties.

[BrentAllen]

NEA communications director is gone, after the conference call asking artists to push Obama's agenda became public.

 

And did anyone notice what Obama discussed with the students at Wakefield High BEFORE the public speech? If you guessed health care, you'd be right.

 

Obama Pitched Universal Health Care to Students in Meeting Prior to His Speech on Education

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/53712

 

"Prior to his nationally broadcast speech to students on Tuesday, President Barack Obama made a pitch for health care reform in a discussion with 40 freshmen at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Va."

 

Would we have heard more of this in the main speech, if we hadn't raised objections?