Hal_Crawford Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I'm not sure that un-married non-celibate heterosexual clergy can be ordained even if they are in a committed relationship. Of course, heterosexuals can legally marry but homosexuals can't in much of the country and the ELCA has no official policy on blessing same sex couples (seems like they should have taken care of that before allowing the ordination but what do I know?). It seems like they need a flow chart for determining eligibility. Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 The 1st word in your quoted post is Those, sherm. Who is Those this passage you posted is referring to? Sound to me like this is taken out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherminator505 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Sorry. I keep forgetting that you aren't Catholics, what with all the talking down and such. The complete discussion can be found in Alan Schreck's "The Essential Catholic Catechism," pages 105-107. Schreck's book is a fairly standard Confirmation/RCIA text. I'm sure that even if you read the entire discussion, you would be hard-pressed to conclude that the Catholic Church presumes, or professes to assume, exclusivity on salvation. It does present discipleship in the Church as "the ordinary way to obtain salvation" but DOES NOT claim exclusivity! I have cited my source quite clearly, and you can look it up for yourself. As for the "Catholic propaganda" BadenP refers to, I would definitely like to see a citation from him. Certainly someone with his depth and breadth of experience could provide one.(This message has been edited by sherminator505) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Sherm, I was a Catholic for more than 25 years! Went to Catholic grade school! I was an altar boy for many years! I was married in the Catholic church! And I can state with certainty that we were taught that Catholic is the only true religion! My mom who is Catholic still prays that I return to the Catholic religion so I will be in heaven with her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherminator505 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Ed, I'm certain we went to different confirmation classes. Or perhaps you have chosen to forget certain parts of the teaching because you left. They DO teach that the Catholic Church is the only true church, with the lineage to back up the claim, but they DO NOT teach that theirs is the only path to salvation, but the usual path to salvation. They concede that ultimate judgment to God. I just finished confirmation, and I remember pretty clearly what I was just taught, so PLEASE do not continue to mischaracterize my faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Back on topic, an interesting point has been made and not answered. Does the IH of the charter organization become a member of the BSA by that connection? They are listed on the charter form, but I do not believe they fill out a membership application. Do the membership requirements encompass that position? Is the IH even run through the background check? This could have interesting repercussions. Could or should the BSA flex its power and revoke all ELCA charters until they (the ELCA) correct this transgression? How can they (the ELCA) assure the IHs are worthy of membership in the BSA with such a ruling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Hey Guys, Sherm, Eamonn, et al, Gern is right, I think we need to stop being necrophiliac sodomistic equestrians and just agree with BadenP and Ed that we are wrong and leave it at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I don't want to beat a dead horse and I do want to keep on topic but I was taught that Catholic is the only true religion & the only path to heaven. That said I find it contradictory that from sherm's last post that he was taught the Catholic church is the one true church but not the only path to salvation. Now back to your regularly scheduled Lutheran bashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narraticong Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Catholics, Lutherans, bash 'em all! I'll never forget being in a conference of Lutheran Scouters at Philmont Training Center in 2008. In the next classroom was a conference of Catholic Scouters. Lots of bad history between those two groups, and very different thoughts on Faith. But the brotherhood between the two groups overwhelmed the differences. We sang to each other, we laughed with each other, we shared meals. We could all agree we had a passion for Scouting and a love of God. Sometimes I think God will just shake his head and say "None of you ever got it. I said you had to love me and love each other. But you all got lost in the details". I think eternity shall be interesting! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlFansome Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Gern- No, under normal circumstances, the IH is just a name in ScoutNet. I know because I'm a COR for 4 units sponsored by a Kiwanis Club. Our IH (president) changes every year in October, and I just call the Council registrar to have the name changed in ScoutNet before our units start their on-line re-charters. The situation is different, of course, if the IH is an active volunteer, but for the typical non-involved IH, then all he/she is is a name (and I think address) in ScoutNet and no other personal information is gathered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal_Crawford Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 "Sometimes I think God will just shake his head and say 'None of you ever got it. I said you had to love me and love each other. But you all got lost in the details'". I share your vision of the Almighty. I also wonder if the next thing He will say is, "Now, lets talk about the things that you did to others in My name". Hal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 OGE I don't care whether you agree with me or not, but the facts are the facts. Benedict just after just being elected pope addressed a group of newly ordained priests and stated this dogma of the Catholic Church that "We are the one true Church, and it is only through the Catholic Church can we hope to obtain true salvation." This speech created quite a scandal it was published on the Vatican website and major newspapers and can still be accessed on the internet and occured right after he made the speech about the Jewish people having to convert and unite with the "mother church" in order to obtain salvation, which I find hilarious because God made his original covenant with the Jews several thousand years before the Roman Catholic Church even exsisted. Right after that speech the head Rabbi in Rome broke off all ecumenical talks with the Vatican, and Israel condemned Benedict for that statement and that is the way it remains today. So OGE, sherm, and Eamonn believe what you like but the facts are the facts and are available to anyone to view. To quote a scripture , "They have ears but they do not hear, and eyes but they do not see." You are welcome to pretend all is perfect and thats fine with me. Heck, I bet if Jesus Christ himself came to you all in person and told you these same facts you would probably try to convince him he was wrong too, lol. So why don't you try to learn more about what your faith truly states as dogma and doctrine, I have and its not all the milk and honey you think it is. Take your potshots at me all you like but none of it will change the facts.(This message has been edited by BadenP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Gee, I agreed with BadenP and got this response, imagine if I disagreed? So, if the Institutional Head is a Gay Lutheran Pastor, can he be an Institutional Head? Is that the question? If a local VFW or American Legion charters a Troop, often the Post Commander is regarded as the Institutional Head. What if this years' Post Commander is Atheist? Can he be the Institutional Head? What if Gay? and openly at that. What happens? Anybody know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherminator505 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I'm still waiting for a citation on that "Catholic propaganda." Fair's fair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I know all of you want an atheist's take on the position of salvation outside the Catholic Church... For centuries, the RCC did teach that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. This raised a lot of problems, such as the direct implication that millions of people in far corners of the world with no opportunity of becoming Catholic, and children of non-Catholic parents who died before reaching their "age of reason," were doomed to hell from the start, with zero hope of making it to heaven. But the RCC couldn't change what they had taught for centuries - people would think they were just making it all up. So they "fixed" it by saying some people could be members of the Catholic Church without they, or the Catholic Church, knowing. Seriously. http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp (fixed typo)(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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