How far is too far?

[FScouter]

"Sherm, nicely put, thank you for expressing what I have just been too gobsmacked to say clearly."

 

Maybe, but what's the point really in saying so??

[Lisabob]

What's the point in most of what people post here, FScouter?

 

pack - it is a rather roomy pigeon hole, as these things go. Come on in.

 

swishy hats.... with a feather on top, maybe?

[Trevorum]

No berets. I draw the line at berets.

[sherminator505]

Kawidaphoenix,

 

You may believe that homosexuality is immoral and you're entitled to that belief. I happen to believe that even if you believe that, that is no license for discrimination, harrassment, or rough treatment. Even verbal rough treatment. This is not consistent with the ideals of Scouting, Christianity or America. Surely you can recognize this.

 

However, you are still missing the point. It's not how you feel about gays that puts people off. It's the half-page of venomous verbal vomit that you use to express it more often than not that puts people off. I sincerely hope that you don't immediately go into one of these acidic rants when one of your Scouts asks about gays. Consider yourself educated.

 

Sherminator505(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Kawidaphoenix]

My education is still incomplete.

My question is still unanswered.....

How do you want it to be put "Nicely"??How would I put it to a scout asking me a question on the subject??

There must be some reason the word Gay got everyone all hot and bothered.everyone said a reference to a gay designer was unacceptable or verbal rough treatment--you tell me how to do it "Acceptable". Tell me what I should have said--Or are you going to do the typical Liberal crawdaddy??

I'm waiting...........(This message has been edited by Kawidaphoenix)(This message has been edited by Kawidaphoenix)

[sherminator505]

Sorry. I did my best. Obviously it wasn't enough. Some just refuse to learn. *sigh*

[DanKroh]

"Maybe, but what's the point really in saying so??"

 

Because I want to compliment Sherminator on his clarity of writing and civility of speech. Is there something wrong with that, FScouter?

[Kawidaphoenix]

Yes it wasn't enough because you didn't answer my specific question, you just listed another unbased assumption of my character.

Typical Liberal. Crawdaddy whenever possible and use Gang up as major weapon.........

Not much on your own.

If I transgressed-- show me how to do it to where the wolf pack would approve.

I didn't think so-- so you all can let this thread die and pick sombody new to rat pack.

[sherminator505]

Well, Kawidaphoenix, I don't know what else to tell you. I have been very consistent in referring specifically to your posts and have made no judgments about your character whatsoever. I have tried to tell you in several posts, and in various ways, that it is not your use of the word "gay," or even your apparent attitude toward gays (as evidenced by your posts), that is the problem, but your very long, very disrespectful rants. If you haven't received the message by now, then I have accomplished nothing. Now I must let this lie fallow for a while, as I have work to do.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[FScouter]

Dans comment about Sherminators eloquent elucidation is fine; I just question the point in shaking a disapproving finger at one who has not asked for advice. Now, had Phoenix asked Why dont folks like me or respect my opinions?, the advice would seem more useful. Once one has determined the ears are deaf, whats the point?

[Kawidaphoenix]

Yep, just as I thought............

[Eamonn]

"We may disagree very strongly on a topic, but how far is too far, and how do we keep these discussions civil, no matter how contentious they may be?"

 

I do try and visit the forum every day.

I think that I used to have some sort of an opinion about most things and tended to post my thoughts.

Lately I seem happy to not always use my two cents.

 

I have at times allowed some people "Get to me". - Maybe at times even been guilty of trying to pick a fight?

A little while back there was a forum member who had some ideas about Scouts and Scouting that to my way of thinking were past just being out there! I seen them as just being plain wrong and at times even dangerous.

I, now as I look back, see that I wasn't very kind and maybe would have done better if I'd just ignored him.

The forum has in the past had a few members who seem to have gone out of their way to push buttons. Sometimes just someone's buttons and sometimes everyones buttons.

This is happening - not so (As) much!!

 

I have to admit to being happy that we do have a few younger forum members.

Having just old codgers like me exchanging ideas and views with other old codgers? Might be fine and dandy? But most of us are so set in our ways, that no matter what is posted is really not going to change very much.

 

Communication, is a strange animal.

We all think we have it mastered, but that isn't always the case.

I work with a lot of younger adults, guys in their early twenties. Sadly a good many are African-American and from what we might call the projects and they might call the hood.

I learn new terminology everyday. Some of that might not ever be acceptable in what we old folks used to call "Mixed Company". Some of it which is acceptable for them to use themselves but not acceptable for others to use.

I was very surprised how very upset these guys get when foul language (Cussing) is used.

Words and expressions do come and go.

Back when I was younger "Neat" was the in word.

Everything was "Neat" our word for good or great.

I can't remember the word for bad.

Sick. I think is still being used.

 

Watching MTV the other day. The Ad Council is running an ad that is trying to get young people to not use the word "Gay" for something that is messed up.

I have to admit that my 21 year old Eagle Scout son has and does use that word for things that he sees as being not right.

I'm not 100% sure but I think just as years back in the UK people used the word "Bloody" without meaning or having anything to do with blood! His use of the word gay is just the word that right now is "In". - Of course this doesn't make it right.

 

I like to think that the Moderators in the forum are doing their job. While at the same time not going over board.

I will at times send someone who is maybe a little too close to the edge an Private Message asking that they turn it down a bit.

When it seems that two forum members are out to get each other, I have been known to delete part of what they have posted -The nasty stuff! Sometimes even the entire posting.

I hate it when Threads are closed.

While reading two people beat up on each other might offer some entertainment? After a while it just gets boring and here on a forum about Scouts and Scouting, just makes us all look bad.

 

I can't tell you how far, is too far.

I do know it when I see it.

But at times I'm happy for one of the other moderators to deal or not deal with it.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

When does it go to far? When it leads to verbal or physical abuse, when it leads to threats of physical abuse. That's when it goes to far.

 

If you're uncomfortable referring to a gay person as gay, then call that person a homosexual. Seems thats what most so-called "Christian" evangelical pastors call gay people - "homosexuals". You might want to say it in the same breathless manner that the evangelical pastors use - it's so much more sensuous that way.

 

If you're gay, and you just can't bring yourself to use the term straight to refer to breeders (ooops - naughty me, using a derogatory term for straight people) then call them Heterosexuals.

 

The whole trend amongst teens to call a thing "gay" started in the 90's and is a not unexpected response during a time when full acceptance of gay people in society is pretty much a given except for a few, final neanderthalithic misanthropes. It's one of the last remnants of oppression on a social scale that still exists. Today's teens are just emulating what their peers are saying, and what they learned at their older siblings knee. Eventually, it will become as quaint a phrase as "Dude, that was like totally tubular". When someone says "that is so gay" around me, my response is usually a snarky "As if a gay person would wear that shirt". Everytime I've said it, the person gets a sheepish look on their face and does the "hehe" chuckle admitting that what they said was pretty lame.

 

A note to XL who said "If the gay person in question is not wearing makeup, girls clothes, or using a pronounced lithp, I wouldn't take any shots. But if they combine any of the above I have no choice." Umm, yeah - you might want to ask the New York City Police Department about how that worked out for them in 1969 when they got their tushes handed to them by a bunch of Judy Garland mourning drag queens who beat the cops down with the high heels they were wearing.

 

As for the pigeonhole - sorry, that's just to small - Let's enlarge it to an Eagle-hole. And no swishy hats, they're just so breedery. But I will bring the dutch oven apple/peach/cherry cobbler!

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Again with the attacks on my beloved Red beret. If I didnt know better I would think someone was baiting me with all this anti-beret talk.

 

Hmm, I wonder if I start closing threads because someone talks bad about the red beret how that would go over?

[Trevorum]

No baiting at all, OGE. I really detested the berets. They are totally fruity (wait - can I say that here?) and only look good if you are Special Forces.