Merlyn_LeRoy Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 What faith-based morality have they abandoned, specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nike Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Coming back to thier senses... 1) Remember that girls join scouting to have FUN. Not be little indentured servants to society learning to be leaders. 2) Don't worry so much about girl empowerment and focus more on girl fun 3) Dump the fluffy, navel gazing badges and programs and get out there and do something fun and different. 4) Dump the New AGe wackiness utterly implicit in the new Journeys books. One of the consultants is the wife of a cult leader, for gosh sakes. Lastly, get some real girl scouts into the HQ and get the bureaucrats out in the field with a pack and a compass. If they can find their ways home, good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 >>What faith-based morality have they abandoned, specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 What do you not want them to go back to? Since I haven't made such an assertion, your question doesn't really apply, although if I looked through some of the older handbooks I could probably find things I wouldn't want them to go back to. However, you still haven't clarified what your "Faith based morality" remark would mean; if the GSUSA "went back" to it, what changes would there be? For that matter, Nike hasn't said what coming back to their senses would mean, either. Don't either of you have the courage of your convictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleetfootedfox Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 A simple google search will turn up many conservative web sites that mention the connection between the GSUSA and Planned Parenthood. Maybe you have to consider the source and these are just blowing it out of proportion. However, consider the following from the girl scouts web site: "America's Top Girl Scouts Named 2007 National Young Women of Distinction ... Madeline, Age 18 Girl Scouts of Milwaukee Area Milwaukee, Wis. Madeline chose to focus on the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community for her project. 'I have many close friends who are part of the LGBT community. They have noticed intolerance toward their growing group. Also, I've heard seemingly intelligent people who believe the age-old stereotypes,' Madeline shared. With the help of her local church community, Madeline created a book aimed at overcoming stereotypes and, at the same time, sharing the similarities of communication among family units." This is one of 12 girls so named. What does it say about the priorities of the GSUSA if this is one of 12 projects named as the best of the best? If you were on an Eagle Board, would you approve this project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Scouter760 writes: A simple google search will turn up many conservative web sites that mention the connection between the GSUSA and Planned Parenthood. But you originally said: "using Planned Parenthood to provide sex education" Where is the GSUSA using PP to provide sex education? This is one of 12 girls so named. What does it say about the priorities of the GSUSA if this is one of 12 projects named as the best of the best? I don't see where it says the PROJECTS are the best of the best; they are the top 13 GS gold award recipients of 2007. What does your criticism of a gay-oriented gold award project say about you, anyway? Do you think gays should be treated with complete contempt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleetfootedfox Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Merlyn_LeRoy, How I feel about liberals and their political agendas is not the issue, is it? Obviously the projects that these girls did was a big part of why they were chosen for this award, because that's all it says about them other than their age and where they are from. Also, I did not criticize the project in question, but I'm pointing out where the GSUSA's priorities evidently fall in contrast to your statement that they keep sexual issues out of the program. Clearly they do not, because they are approving gold award projects which center on these issues and then holding them up on their web site as an example for other girls to follow. There are lots of web pages on the planned parenthood sex-ed for girl scouts. Try this one from msnbc: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4441006/ You can't say that msnbc is a fundamentalist web site. The story is straight off the AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Scouter760 writes: Merlyn_LeRoy, How I feel about liberals and their political agendas is not the issue, is it? No, but I didn't ask you that. Obviously the projects that these girls did was a big part of why they were chosen for this award, because that's all it says about them other than their age and where they are from. Probably, but I doubt they were selected solely on their gold award projects, either. Also, I did not criticize the project in question, but I'm pointing out where the GSUSA's priorities evidently fall in contrast to your statement that they keep sexual issues out of the program. I don't see where a gold award project by a youth member somehow shows where the GSUSA's priorities fall. Clearly they do not, because they are approving gold award projects which center on these issues and then holding them up on their web site as an example for other girls to follow. I'd say that particular project centers on discrimination and prejudice, not sex, just as a similar project on racial discrimination and prejudice wouldn't be a good example of the GSUSA stirring up racial issues. There are lots of web pages on the planned parenthood sex-ed for girl scouts. Try this one from msnbc: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4441006/ Where in that story does it say that the GSUSA is "using Planned Parenthood to provide sex education"? There's this part: ... And they were disturbed to find out that the Girl Scout organization has been giving its endorsement for years to a Planned Parenthood sex-ed program in which girls and boys are given literature on homosexuality, masturbation and condoms. ... But that isn't a GS program, nor does it take place during GS meetings: ... The Waco-area Girl Scout organization has been putting its name and logo on brochures for the Planned Parenthood sex-education programs but said it does not contribute any money and does not send girls to attend. ... And there's this: ... The Girl Scouts national organization, which is based in New York and has 2.9 million girl members and 986,000 adult members, takes no position on sex education or abortion and has no national relationship with Planned Parenthood, according to the Bluebonnet Council. ... So it doesn't look like your statement applies to the GSUSA; it might apply to this council, but even that looks weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nike Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Gold Award projects are very different from Eagle Scout projects. Usually they take more time, resources, and tons more paperwork. (Ask a Senior/Ambassador advisor and watch her/him grimace.) Also, many projects are judged on their sustainability over time as well as the size and depth of the impact they have on the community. GSUSA is more liberal than BSA. That's a fact. It was a pretty radical idea in 1913 for girls to participate in Scouting. Some aspects of the GS program have gone waaaayyy over the left hand edge. I hope those elements will fail as astoundingly as the last program redo in the mid 90s. GSUSA has forgotten that children, boys and girls, want to be in Scouts because it looks like and should be a lot of FUN (isv: with a purpose!!! Premier leadership experience for girls in America is a great thing to tell corporate sponsors. But to market to kids it has to be FUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleetfootedfox Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Yeah, Merlyn_LeRoy, what I said before is that the GSUSA has not taken a stand and you replied "I think they took a stand on moral issues by not excluding people..." Now you are quoting them where they say they take "no position". We seem to be going around in circles. What I am trying to say is that they take no official position on the national level which then allows the Councils to do whatever they want. Here's a quote from a 2004 article at http://www.lifenews.com/nat369.html: "...Kathy Cloninger, CEO of the Girl Scouts of America, appeared on NBC's 'Today' show Friday morning to discuss the boycott. 'The Girl Scouts in Waco, Texas, really made a decision based on local community context, they decided that in this particular situation that it would be in the best interest of girls and their families to discontinue the relationship with Planned Parenthood,' said Cloninger. Cloninger explained that Girl Scouts of America addresses the challenges girls face in today's world, including issues regarding sexuality and body image. 'We partner with many organizations. We have relationships with our church communities, with YWCAs, and with Planned Parenthood organizations across the country, to bring information-based sex education programs to girls,' added Cloninger." So, despite not having an official position, she doesn't have a problem with using the word "we" when talking about partnering with Planned Parenthood "across the country". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Scouter760 writes: Yeah, Merlyn_LeRoy, what I said before is that the GSUSA has not taken a stand and you replied "I think they took a stand on moral issues by not excluding people..." Now you are quoting them where they say they take "no position". We seem to be going around in circles. No, you're just comparing apples & oranges. They've taken a stand on not excluding gays and atheists; it's perfectly consistent for them to take positions on admitting gays and atheists, yet have no position on sex education or abortion. What I am trying to say is that they take no official position on the national level which then allows the Councils to do whatever they want. Some BSA councils would also like a local option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Allowing everything isn't taking a stand! It is just the opposite! Admitting everyone and having no position on issues is about as wishy-washy as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingagain Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 "With the help of her local church community..." Sort of sounds like faith based morality. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Admitting everyone and not having a position on issues seems to describe Libertarianism pretty well A viewpoint that I have been increasing drawn too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Well, as a moral philosophy, libertarianism simply means that humans have free will and are responsible for their actions (as opposed to determinism). In terms of a political philosophy, here's the URL for the platform adopted in 2008 http://www.lp.org/platform OGE, I think you were possibly overstating your position for effect, but libertarians have a very definite stand and, for instance, would not welcome either Barack Obama or George Bush into their ranks, nor would they welcome anyone who infringed on the rights of the individual in terms of privacy or through redistribution of wealth. Just a couple of thoughts on the topic. As relates to the topic at hand, if I had a daughter I would most certainly not put her in AHG, but that would be my personal choice. Vicki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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