Wow!

[skeptic]

Try this; it works for me in Mozilla browser. Tried it in IE, and it did not for some reason. Odd. Has the earlier late 40's to late 50's program; also a couple of patches from the new program from late 50's. Probably with a bit of digging, you can find some other representations.

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/explorers.html

[packsaddle]

Merlyn, man that was just so beautiful I can hardly stand it. My short answer is 'yes', must be so.

[emb021]

It helps if you go to the top level of my site:

 

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826

 

ALL of the different Explorer logos of the different program eras as there, as I cover the Explorer Scout program, Explorer program of the 50s, Exploring program of the 60, and later Explorer program of the 70s thru 90s.

 

 

[skeptic]

Thanks for the additional link info. I am paper collector, and now have one more unusual type to aspire to find, even if it is unlikely. At least I know it exists now. You never know what sort of just shows up somewhere.

[HICO_Eagle]

Well it is indeed a good thing that a couple of the out of touch right wing posters here are no longer active scouters but only come here to berate other opinions.

 

Hmm... let's see, I've seen OGE, Beavah and Stosh actively participate in other forums in providing help and advice to newbie Scouters. They still seem pretty active in Scouting itself whereas I don't recall you demonstrating that. All three of them talked about the issue whereas you berated other posters with ad hominem attacks and strawman arguments.

 

I get it! You're looking at a mirror and therefore mistaking your left wing extremism for right wing!

[OldGreyEagle]

Thank you HICO, I think,

 

I should warn you that at times I have been labled the very worst of left leaning liberalism that shall cause the down fall of Western Civilization (which doesnt matter because at times the same thing was said of Gene Simmons and he dated Cher and lives with Shannon Tweed)

 

I never know what position, Left Wing or Right Wing my beliefs are, I just know what they are, post them and then I get told here what type of person I am, for that day

[BadenP]

HICO

 

First of all I like both Stosh and Beavah and respect their scouting background and opinions, even the ones I disagree with which are not too often. As OGE has pointed out he goes through continuing metamorphisis daily so it depends on where he is for that day whether he acts as a moderator or an attacker, lol. Sometimes in the heat of battle things get said out of context, but I think Stosh and I know where we are both coming from, even when we disagree. So HICO don't try to flame a fire with inappropriate observations, okay.

[fgoodwin]

BadenP writes:Gee, there is a Neo-Nazi training camp about fifty miles away from me, maybe they could become an LFL post too, what great things they could do.I think the following corollary of Godwin's Law applies now:There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

 

[BadenP]

Once again Fred you got it so very wrong. That was not a comparison but rather trying to speculate the extreme as to the type of post the BSA might go with in LFL, and the comment was made in jest if you would learn to understand what you read. So thank you once again Fred for your incorrect and worthless post.

[fgoodwin]

BP: sounds like a rationalization.

 

I'll bet you knew exactly what you were doing when you made that comment. And it wasn't made in jest.

[le Voyageur]

 

 

Actually what these young folks are doing is nothing new. Milita training in the 18th century on the fronteer started around age 14, and this current type of training falls well under the 2nd Amendment for a "well regulated milita".

 

Where the great big sticky is, that this is para military training; not, and let me repeat myself here, this is not criminal justice training, even though the Bush Doctrine has royally trashed posse comitatus via the Patriot Act,this type of training pretends to be what it isn't .

 

As para military training this unit is no longer operating within the scope of BSA rules, and regulation. I'm sure BSA's uniform policy on the wearing of cami's will even apply here.

 

As para military training, those Unit Leaders are now in the wind. I would suggest that they consider a mult million dollar insurance policy for their own protection, as that BSA's umbrella which protects us Scouters has legally slammed shut.

[Daddy_O]

This reeks of the Hitler Youth.

[Stosh]

Everyone always has a comparison made to issues of the past and point out how relevant it is to today. However, a case can be made on both sides all the time. Ok, take a rather obscure figure, using charismatic orations, rises to power, promoting national socialism drawing in the workers party, manipulating the media of the times, etc. etc. etc. and one begins to wonder all over again. Hitler youth? What about the college campuses of today? Take a conservative side on an issue and you can kiss your 4.0 gpa goodby! Since when has not the wars of all nations fought by the youth of their respective countries? Sure, BSA wears a uniform, but as pointed out, so does the Orkin Man, as well as most repairmen. There's nothing sinister about these people. Unless maybe the Orkin Man's weapons of mass destruction.

 

What most people will not own up to is that the leadership and character development of the BSA in it's rather conservative/religiously based premise can cause some people to be rather "offended". What is it that the BSA offers that is such a threat to them? Is it jealously because they don't have a program to promote their ideals and thus find it necessary to run down the other guys?

 

I remember the days when law enforcement was referred to as PIGS. Get a life people, there are those out there that have strong character and solid convictions that will maintain a certain amount of civilization for the rest of us regardless of how much others try to introduce anarchy.

 

I remember all those street performers that juggle flames, walk tight ropes and do all sorts of amazing things. What they always tell the crowd is "Don't try this at home!" Well, where do you think these people learned it? At tightrope school? Flame juggling school? Sure BSA teaches skills and ethics, it's a program that has endured the test of time and will continue on long after the flames and arrows that are flung at it expire.

 

Teaching youth the skills, dangers, pitfalls of any profession, including law enforcement, is part of what these young people are looking for. They are not interested in a water down version of, "Gee, look at that you can be doing sometime later on in life, but in your formative years, you can only observe. Look at all these pictures of campfires, but you can't have one for fear of burning down your neighborhood.

 

Just remember, all BSA troops are really gangs of boys gathered together, armed with small but effective weapons and are learning skills that someday could possibly burn down Southern California on a dry, windy day.

 

Don't cha just love a person's imagination run wild?

 

Stosh

[desertrat77]

The only thing I don't like about it is the character they chose as the aggressor in the scenario: "disgruntled Iraq war veteran."

 

Appears the Border Patrol didn't want offend the real aggressors near our southern border...namely drug runners from various countries outside the US. Or the US citizens inside our border that facilitate the drug traffic.

 

Either way, war veterans probably are the least likely folks to be a BP problem.

 

At least one unit in AZ had the courage to not be PC when they picked their aggressor.

 

The rest of the program, I say full steam ahead...the scouts are volunteers. Their parents approved their membership applications, right? They are not doing anything illicit, illegal, or immoral.

 

This may also explain why JROTC units are thriving around the nation, causing great shock and concern amongst our more liberal citizens.

 

The reason why young folks choose this type of program is simple: they are looking for a challenge. Given the chance, they are smarter, stronger and more capable than many of their parents, teachers and youth leaders give them credit for.

 

This, I think, is the common thread between successful scout units, JROTC units, church youth programs, you name it. Not a watered down program...rather, one that makes the youth really stretch themselves.

 

For the folks who are aghast at this program due to military or right wing implications: I respectfully submit these guys and gals are teengagers--almost adults. They want to be there. They are doing something that really satisfies them...and has career potential.

 

And it isn't about right/left politics...these scenarios are exercised by uniformed folks every day, in the military and in law enforcement agencies. Despite popular opinion, uniformed services are not comprised of solely right wing folks...you will find folks representing the entire political spectrum who have choosen a career path of service to our nation.

 

If we want to rid the BSA of militarism, let's focus on those riiiiiiidiculous epaulets.....

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Mark Ray on the scouts-l list found this response to the article:

http://www.learningforlife.org/nav/Response/index.html