Bigotry of the BSA

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah writes:

of course I have never said that public schools "ought to be able to discriminate against atheists."

 

Yes, you have. You repeated it just now, too:

Public schools should sponsor any co-curricular program that helps achieve their secular purpose for a segment of their students.

 

And to sponsor a BSA unit, as you have previously advocated, would require that public schools discriminate against atheists.

 

They should welcome the B'nai B'rith Youth Organization if it helps their Jewish students establish a community and feel welcome and succeed at school, they should sponsor the Young Atheists if the organization helps in their mission of encouraging critical thinking skills, and they should sponsor the Boy Scouts if having a troop helps teach some of their students about citizenship, service, and character.

 

Public schools can't practice religious discrimination, and they can't teach that belief in god is an aspect of good citizenship or character.

[HICO_Eagle]

Beavah, I consider you yourself to be bigoted because you continue to say that public schools ought to be able to discriminate against atheists by chartering BSA units that exclude atheists.

 

Great and I consider you ignorant or logically deficient since you can't seem to understand that enabling a youth group to meet in no way discriminates against atheists/Christians/poets/etc. who are free to create their own group and seek a meeting place and time of their own.

 

When I was in high school a group of friends and I created a Wargaming club. We got a teacher sponsor and were allowed to use a classroom in a non-interference manner to play D&D, Risk, etc. Were we discriminatory because our club didn't cater to those who wanted to play Bridge or Badminton (of course there was already a separate Chess Club)? Your trail of illogic would lead to that exact interpretation.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

HICO_Eagle, I'm referring to a public school being the chartering organization; I've stated many times that BSA units have the same right to use school facilities as any other outside organization. But a public school can't charter a BSA unit, because the school would have to practice religious discrimination to do so.

[HICO_Eagle]

I'm sorry but the school would only be discriminatory if they refused to also charter competing groups or if they contributed material funds. I don't think use of a classroom or the lunch room or the occasional trips to the bathroom count in that. Although as a taxpayer I think I would draw the line at overtime pay for the janitor to keep the room or facility open specifically for that troop/pack to meet. My university sponsored a Black Student League that refused to allow white students to join -- even a Jewish student whose parents had marched alongside King et al in Selma.

 

As I said, your logic would have forced our Wargaming Club to admit and service bridge and badminton players and who knows what else.

 

Why don't you set up a Gay and Atheist Youth club to service to their needs? If/when the school refuses their charter simply on the basis of name or core values, then let's talk.

 

I think a quote from Fiddler on the Roof is apt when considering the almost maniacal attacks on BSA from various communities:

 

Villager: An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth!

Tevye: Very good. That way the whole world will be blind and toothless.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I'm sorry but the school would only be discriminatory if they refused to also charter competing groups or if they contributed material funds.

 

The ACLU and even the BSA's own lawyers don't agree; the BSA agreed to stop chartering discriminatory BSA units to public schools and other government entities back in 2005.

 

As I said, your logic would have forced our Wargaming Club to admit and service bridge and badminton players and who knows what else.

 

You don't appear to know the difference between a BSA unit chartered by a public school vs. a BSA unit chartered by some other organization but which meets in a school.

 

As for your distaste for "an eye for an eye" justice, you have something against biblical morality?

[Beavah]

of course I have never said that public schools "ought to be able to discriminate against atheists." Yes, you have.

 

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

 

I'm feelin' like breakin' into a refrain of "Here we go round the Merlynberry bush!".

 

Or perhaps Julie Andrews as Mary Poppins singing "Feed the Trolls, tuppence a bag!"

 

Yah, Merlyn, the BSA advised councils not to encourage public school charters and took steps to move those charters to churches and community groups so as to protect our public school partners from the expense of silly litigation. By and large it didn't change how units operated a lick, so why not avoid the expense so da likes of you can claim a pyrrhic victory.

 

Can a public school still choose to charter a BSA unit? Sure.

 

Beavah

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Not legally, Beavah. I can hit someone with my car, but that wouldn't make it legal, either.

[evmori]

Not legally, Beavah. I can hit someone with my car, but that wouldn't make it legal, either.

 

Hitting someone with your car is only illegal if your intent was to do them harm, otherwise it is probably an accident & that is not illegal.

 

Try aagin!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, how could a public school "accidentally" charter a BSA unit?

[Beavah]

Yah, Merlyn, it's just fine to speculate on da legality, eh?

 

Honesty demands that we admit that such a case has not been tried by a precedent-setting court.

 

B

 

[evmori]

You used the analogy of hitting someone with your car, Merlyn, which had absolutely nothing to do with anything! I was just pointing out how inane that comparison was. And also how it's isn't always illegal!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah writes:

Honesty demands that we admit that such a case has not been tried by a precedent-setting court.

 

Because, for some odd reason, no public school ever wants to lose tons of money defending obviously unlawful religious discrimination.

[John-in-KC]

WHO WANTS PIE????

[CD_Ranger]

I said way back at the beginning I like Pie and I still have not gotten any.

[Eagle92]

can I have chocolate with lots and lots of whip cream?