Bigotry of the BSA

[pinkpooj]

So you must believe/practice any God so as to self-oppress into having "morals"?

 

Anyways, I did make pinewood derby cars, sell pancake supper tickets outside of my local K-Mart, I think that's pretty much it. I also learned the valuable life lesson of how to make a lighter flame three feet high in Boy Scouts (pretty much the only thing I learned)

[fleetfootedfox]

Can't the moderators kill this thread? The guy's just getting his jollies picking a fight. Clearly, he is not a scouter and has no business on this forum.

[evmori]

Yep this thread has no point. It should be terminated.

[Eamonn]

"Can't the moderators kill this thread? The guy's just getting his jollies picking a fight. Clearly, he is not a scouter and has no business on this forum."

I can't speak for the other Moderators.

 

While maybe pinkpooj does have his own agenda?

I however feel that nearly all of the replies are of help to others who might be lurking or just passing through.

 

A few years back a great kid from the District I serve nearly quit Scouts.

He had staffed a JLTC training and the guy in charge stated that in order to be a Scout you had to be a Christian.

At the time this Lad was going through a phase, like many of us may have gone through? Where he was questioning anything and everything. In fact he did kinda step back, remaining on a Troop charter, but not doing very much.

He did after a while join the Ship.

We talked. He said that he did believe that there was "Something" maybe some kind of higher power that he wanted to believe in. He just didn't go for the all the church stuff and the rigmarole that went with it. He started reading books about different religions and after a while seemed to take a liking to becoming a Wicca follower.

I was in the shower the other night when he stopped by the house with his Mother to say that everything was done apart from the BOR for him to become an Eagle Scout.

My hope by not killing this thread, is that maybe guys like the one who told him that you have to be a Christian will see it and maybe not make the same mistake?

 

pinkpooj

You are of course free to believe or not believe in anything you like.

My hope is that maybe before you decide for sure that you are really an Atheist, that you take the time to look at some of the other religions or beliefs that are out there.

It might be that there is one that you find that suits you?

Of course maybe you will decide that you really are an Atheist?

My bigger hope is that in time you will look back at the time you spent as a Lad in Scouts and look kindly on the good people who gave up their time with no reward to work with you and for you?

Right now you remember the 3 foot flame, but if you take the time maybe you will see that these men and women were good people who cared about other people. Maybe in time? You will see that they weren't in any way bigots, just people who were trying to live by the golden rule:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

(Lots of different religions use different words to say this, but as I see things; it amounts to much the same thing. If you do decide that you are going to remain an Atheist? You might decide to adopt this golden rule as something to live by.)

Eamonn.

 

 

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Eamonn writes:

My hope is that maybe before you decide for sure that you are really an Atheist, that you take the time to look at some of the other religions or beliefs that are out there.

It might be that there is one that you find that suits you?

 

Is this like finding a pair of pants that fit?

 

By the way, why is it important to find a religion, any religion? Religions aren't intrinsically good or anything. It's also possible to join some religions while being an atheist.

 

My bigger hope is that in time you will look back at the time you spent as a Lad in Scouts and look kindly on the good people who gave up their time with no reward to work with you and for you?

 

Right up until he became a Jew and discovered he was in a Restricted club, and saw how having a repulsive and arbitrary policy like "anyone, as long as you aren't a Jew" completely undercuts it.

 

Right now you remember the 3 foot flame, but if you take the time maybe you will see that these men and women were good people who cared about other people.

 

Except Jews. If they cared about Jews, they wouldn't belong to a Restricted club.

 

You will see that they weren't in any way bigots, just people who were trying to live by the golden rule:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

 

Sorry, they ARE bigots if they belong to a Restricted club.

 

Oops, a typo. Change "Jew" to atheist and "a Restricted club" to "the Boy Scouts". Same principles.

 

 

[Beavah]

Or change "Jew" to "Boating Enthusiast with no interest in airplanes" and "Restricted Club" to "Aviation Club for pilots".

 

Same principles.

 

 

[BadenP]

If you guys quit responding to this troll the thread will die on its own.

 

JUST IGNORE HIM!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah writes:

Or change "Jew" to "Boating Enthusiast with no interest in airplanes" and "Restricted Club" to "Aviation Club for pilots".

 

Same principles.

 

Nope. There clearly are gays and atheists who want to join scouting. The BSA is keeping them out.

[Chug]

Why do some atheists have such a bee in their bonnet about Scouts, Scouting worldwide has a spiritual dimension, if you're not prepared to accept this, that is your problem. My local sailing club insists that members can swim a minimum of 50m, this isn't bigoted against non-swimmers, it's the rules of the club. If you're not prepared to abide by the rules you can't join.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Why do some scouts have such a bee in their bonnet about atheists?

 

My local sailing club insists that members can swim a minimum of 50m, this isn't bigoted against non-swimmers, it's the rules of the club.My local sailing club insists that members can swim a minimum of 50m, this isn't bigoted against non-swimmers, it's the rules of the club.

 

Let me know when they exclude someone for not having the "right" religious views, and I'll call them bigoted at that time. Just like the BSA.

[DeanRx]

Merlyn... BSA is biogoted... really? OK, I guess so.

 

I do take issue with the idea that there are gays and atheists that truely want to JOIN scouting. If they did, why wouldn't they just keep their beliefs to themselves, join and abide by the policies set by the organization?

 

Seems to me, the gay and atheist AGENDAS only seek to destroy an organization that they disagree with.

 

See here's a couple "beliefs" I hold true. I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to enjoy a beer around the campfire. I'm of legal drinking age and so long as I don't harm myself and others, is BSA not infringing on my rights as an adult citizen of the USA from having a beer at a scouting function?

 

I believe that I should be able to CHOOSE if I wear a PFD when riding in a boat or a canoe. I'm an excellent swimmer and think I'm of sound enough mind to determine if / when water conditions would make it the prudent thing to do. However, BSA policy states that if I want to boat at a scouting event, I (and everyone else) will wear a PFD, no exceptions. Again, BSA policy runs afoul of my personal belief system.

 

Finally, I believe there is no reason that a cub scout can't safely be taught about and safely shoot a .22-cal rifle. BSA policy states that scouts must be in Boy Scouts before they can shoot such a rifle, cubbies only can do recurve archery and BB-gun air rifle. This runs contrary to my personal beliefs as well. It is legal for scouts of cub age to fire a .22-cal rifle, so BSA must be trappling my (and the scout's) civil rights... shame on BSA.

 

The point I am trying to make is if gays and atheists were really THAT set on participating in scouting, they could and would. They would just have to choose to abide by some rules and policies that they don't personally believe to be true. All of us do that to some degree or another, because not doing so would mean we would be asked to leave scouting and we acknowledge that the benefits from participation outwieghs the "damage" done by a policy in which we are not in agreement.

 

The gays and atheists have to make that decision for themsleves. There is no policy that states gays and atheists are banned from joining. They are just disallowed from promoting THEIR agenda over the policy of BSA (whether the BSA policy is correct or not). Much the same that I am not allowed to promote drinking by adults at BSA sponsored campouts.

 

I don't agree with all of BSA's policies - but I respect that if I want to "play" in their organization, then I must "play" by their policy rules.

 

Somewhere along the way, the gays and atheists have decided that THEIR agenda trumps the organization's right to set policy (even if it is misguided). So they choose to attack the organization by labelling it as biogoted / racist or some other derogatory label - at the same time they profess to not want to be labelled themselves. Its a do as I say, not as I do mentality.

 

Gays and atheists don't want to join and be scouters. They see an organization that runs contrary to THEIR personal belief system and decide that it must be destroyed / eliminated. One of the easiest ways to accomplish this task is to resort to labelling the organization as being prejudiced and smearing its reputation and credibility.

 

So you think those in BSA are bigots because we don't think like you do... well OK, I guess that is the term you choose to use. I personally think that a person that CHOOSES to live their life without a faith in a higher power or as a non-hetrosexual person is living an amoral life. Doesn't mean I hate or dislike folks that choose to live that way. But, I certainly don't go out of my way to surround myself with folks living those lifestyles. If that makes me a bigot - then sign me up, where do I get my patch and membership card?

 

They're not after EQUALITY - they're after SPECIAL CONSIDERATION or PROTECTED STATUS in society... sorry - I'll happily give you equality, but your beliefs are NOT more important than mine. I don't show up at an athiest support group (or whatever organization they have) or a gay rights organization and state, "Hey, I'm straight and belive in God, but I want to join your group... If you don't let me in and change your policy to what I believe, then your organization is bigoted...." "If you don't let me in and allow me to promote MY agenda within your organization, then I'll go on the national stage and call out your organization as prejudiced and discriminatory" or "I'll go to court and try to bar your organization from using public lands on the grounds that you are not 'all inclusive' because you won't let straight, religious people into your organization and let them talk about how being hetrosexual and having faith is the same as being gay / atheist and that we should all be respected..."

 

Yet - its perfectly fine for gays and atheists to do these things to the BSA, under the guise that they just want to "join" and be accepted on equal terms?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I do take issue with the idea that there are gays and atheists that truely want to JOIN scouting. If they did, why wouldn't they just keep their beliefs to themselves, join and abide by the policies set by the organization?

 

What makes you think there aren't a lot doing that now?

 

But why is that acceptable? If you belonged to a club that allowed everyone except Jews to join, the fact that some Jews can join by not mentioning that they're Jews doesn't change the fundamental bigotry of such a rule in the first place.

 

[evmori]

Ps here's a link for 4 Kings 2:23-24

 

What version of the Bible is this?

 

 

[Trevorum]

Oy veh!

[skeptic]

Ed; it is from a late nineteenth century version of the Vulgate bible, which predates basically the King James version. It has a number of Old Testament books not included in the more familiar version with which most of us are familiar. It also has slight variations in the New Testament.

 

You can find a number of substantial descriptions by Googling.