Bigotry of the BSA

[pinkpooj]

I think that the BSA is totally bigoted, and in spite of this still is shown in a good light. They say that to "be a good citizen" you must believe in their God, in order to have morals, and ethical ideals. So if you're an Atheist (like me) you can't get in. But from reading the Bible, I can easily tell that Christianity and the Bible are totally unethical. In the Bible, Elijah kills forty two innocent children in the name of GOD because they made fun of him for being bald. Sounds pretty "moral" to me. In case any of you would like to verify this story, it can be found in 4 Kings 2:23-24. Another story of Bible "morality" can be found in Judges 19:22-30. It is so incredibly horrible I won't even bother to say it.

 

P.S. I 'm not just some wierdo who randomly joined to say this, I actually used to be both a Cub and Boy Scout, but at the time, I did not know of these things, since I was ignorant. And now, I'm glad I quit.

[JoeBob]

Can you send us a link to a picture of yourself?

 

I want to know if trolls still have warts...

 

http://www.fotosearch.com/CSP056/k0567087/

[CA_Scouter]

WAS ignorant ????!!????

[CD_Ranger]

I like Pie.

[Trevorum]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience as a Cub and as a Scout.

 

Many people who disagree with BSA's membership requirements still acknowledge it to be the nation's best character-building and leadership-training organization for young people.

[DeanRx]

Sorry - think you got your facts a little wrong...

 

BSA policy does not require one to believe in "their" God. BSA does require a belief in a "higher being" or the idea that in order to become the best person and reach your full potential, that one must have a faith in a "higher power" than oneself.

 

In our pack alone, we have families that are many denominations of Christain, we have Jews, we have at least two families of Hindus. I'm pretty sure one of the other families are Muslim - I haven't asked, they haven't offered their religious affiliation.

 

So, I'm sorry sir - you are quoting policy that you don't understand. That's OK, its often misinterpreted that way. You do have one part correct. As an avowed atheist, you would not be offered membership in BSA. Its not that you don't believe in the "right" God. Its the fact that you choose to not acknowledge that there is a "higher power" than yourself. That's your choice. Its BSA's choice not to include those that do not share this belief. Its that simple.

 

Its funny to me how tolerance of ones views / beliefs is such a one way street in the U.S. today... You have a right to your belief / view and BSA has a right to theirs. Neither one is going to change the other's mind, so best to just agree to disagree and move on with life. You can think that the BSA is "totally bigoted" (to use your words), thats fine. Just don't expect that the BSA is going to alter its core values to your liking because you disagree with their policy. News flash for you - the majority of BSA members and even the majority of the populace of the USA believe as the BSA policy believes. Same goes for being homosexual. Will that one day change? Maybe. I certainly hope not, but it could. However, at that point I think our nation will have far larger concerns about its future than the policy of one youth organization.

 

See here's the real rub - we live in a land in which we tolerate all. This doesn't mean we must embrace all, celebrate all or admit all into every club / organization / group. However, we also live in a land where the "majority rules". Even with all our problems, the majority in this country think that to believe in a "higher power", to show faith (whatever faith that is), and to practice your religion as you see fit makes you a better person than to have no religion at all.

[evmori]

1st there is no 4 Kings 2:23-24.

 

2nd, lots of horrible things happened in ancient times. And let's not forget, Christians didn't exist until after Christ was crucified. Most of the people referred to in the OT were Jews.

 

3rd, what's your point?

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters,

 

At least pinkpooj stated his opinion. And thankfully he didn't ask a question (such as Why can't atheist....) and didn't invite an answer or explanation; just to stir up a repetitive debate.

 

I'm just glad that pinkpooj and I, have a difference of opinions.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[pinkpooj]

I was pointing out how the BSA says you have to have belief in a God to have morals, when the Bible has stories like when God kills 42 children because they fun of Elijah's bald head, and the great mathematical story when it is directly implied that Pi is equal to 3. Also, I was pointing out the discrimination of this organization.

 

That story that I didn't say I will now tell.

It can be found in Judges 19:22-30.

A man and his concubine are wandering the streets. A man with a house lets them stay in his house for the night. Then, a group of men knock at the door and request to rape the house guest man. The House owner declines, but lets them rape the concubine. They rape her all night and leave her bloodied on the doorstep. She dies there. Then the house guest cuts her into 12 pieces and sends each piece to a Israeli tribe.

 

When I read this, I was like, wow! Sounds pretty "moral" to me! (I would hope that no one would use this story in any kind way to prove or justify anything)

Ps here's a link for 4 Kings 2:23-24

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/12002.htm

 

And about the free country and all, where everybody can believe and practice what they want, here's a statement from one of our "great" presidents, George H. W. Bush!

 

Reporter: "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?"

 

George H. W. Bush: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."(This message has been edited by pinkpooj)

[nolesrule]

P.S. Kings is divided into 2 parts. There is no "4 Kings". Don't believe everything you read on the intarwebs, even Wikipedia. Anyone can write anything they want, and apparently it will be taken as the truth.

[skeptic]

Nolesrule:

 

While I do not countenance the comments of this thread's beginning, I feel you need to know the Vulgate is an authentic text, and there are numerous variations known. While most of us were raised with the more or less standard King James Version, it is nowhere nearly the oldest translations of the texts. And various biblical scholars continue today to reinterpret parts of the material, attempting to go back as early as possible. It will always have variations, and often major errors; but the best are clearly valid. Still, the basic material is fairly consistent for the most part.

 

No matter which biblical text you may choose, there will always be cogent versions that challenge the meanings and interpretations. How can it be otherwise, with 2 centuries and 4 major languages, possibly more if you add in the Germanic ones, and some of the earliest Arabic material?

[scoutldr]

Yes the BSA is a bigoted, discriminatory organization. And the SCOTUS (interesting...anagram for SCOUTS) has ruled that the discrimination is legal, since it is a private organization. If you would take the time to look up the Webster's definition of "bigoted", you would realize that your initial post is also bigoted. If you don't like our private organization, then go away and find one you DO like. It's a free country, after all, with "freedom of association" and all that.

 

So yes, I agree with you. Is there anything else you would like to argue? It's not very productive to blame the BSA for what's written in the Bible. The OT also says that children who disobey their parents should be put to death. I can't remember the last time I did that. I choose to believe that the Bible is allegory...not literal law for living. And if GHWB actually said that, I disagree with him too. But I doubt he'll change his mind because I don't agree.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[Eagle007]

pinkpooj it is obvious by your own admission that you are not a scout or scouter nor are you interested in scouting so go away. You have nothing to gain by bashing what we are accomplishing with this website.

[SMT224]

So pinkpooj...

 

Since you seem to have some real issues with the Boy Scouts, perhaps you could be so kind as to identify any other organization in existence today that teaches teenage boys how to prepare a balanced menu, shop for food using limited funds, cook an excellent meal over an open campfire, competently use a compass and map, camp in the heat of summer and cold of winter, and start a fire without any matches in any conditions at all.

 

Maybe you know of another program that fits your discerning criteria that provides young men with friendship and challenges in a non-competitive learning environment that teaches hands-on life skills.

 

Perhaps you can tell me of another program that gives urban youth a safe and supportive situation that gets them out in nature every month of the year.

 

You can righteously preach about morally conflicting biblical stories and your own morality, but stop a moment and think... is there anything like the Boy Scouts today?

 

You say you were a Cub and Boy Scout. Did you ever go camping? Did you ever build a pinewood derby car? Did you ever go to summer camp and earn merit badges? Did you make friends? Do you remember camping in a tent? Do you know how to use a map? Or compass? Or build a fire? Or cook? Look back for a moment... was there any other organizations that would have done all that -- for you?

 

Well...?

[OldGreyEagle]

See, the issue to me is using the Bible to attack the Religious aspect of the BSA. That of course infers that one must be a beleiverin the God of Abraham to be a Boy Scout and that is not true. We have several posters who visit this forum who are quite spiritual and whose belief systems have nothing to do with the God of Abraham. Such Scouters maybe followers of Wicca or other beliefs unrelated to the God of Abraham and they are accepted as members of the BSA. For that matter, the following are all religous groups and the religious awardsthoae groups have that Boy Scouts may earn and wear on their Uniforms:

Bahai gives the Unity of Man

The Bah Faith stands for unity and peace among all of the worlds religions. Followers believe that each religion was suited to the needs of people at a certain time in history. Adult award: Service to Humanity (in green for women and blue for men).

Buddists give the Metta, Sangha and Bodhi awards

Buddhism grew out of the teachings of Buddha in eastern and central Asia. Buddhists believe that suffering is a part of life and can be overcome by physical and spiritual purification. Adult award: Bodhi, meaning awakening.

Hindus give the Dharma award

Beliefs date back to 1500 B.C.E. Hinduism, which has its roots in India, is the worlds third-largest religion. The religion is a diverse system of thoughts that encompasses a variety of religious traditions. Adult awards: Saathi, or parent, and Bhakta, or mentor

Meher Baba gives the Love for God and Compassionate Father

Founded: Early 20th century. Meher Baba, an Indian spiritual master, publicly stated that he was the Avatar (or spiritual being) of his time. He began a life of silence from 1925 until his death more than 40 years later. His followers believe in a concept of nonduality, meaning that God is inherent in all animals and inanimate objects. Baba also believed in reincarnation. Adult award: The Ancient One. No emblem exists for this award. Instead, recipients wear the religious award square knot.

Zoroastrians give the Good Life awards

Founded: 5th century B.C.E. Zoroaster, the ancient Iranian prophet, gives his name (and his teachings) to this religion. Believers of Zoroastrianism worship one God, Ahura Mazda, who is seen as the counterpoint to chaos and disorder. Followers believe that good deeds and a good life can help stave off the chaos of the world. No adult award.

None of the above have anything to do with the God of Abraham. (This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)