Question for Disparagers, etc.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Of course the amendments count as part of the US constitution, OGE, they amend the original.

[evmori]

That's the way some interpret the 1st Amendment, OGE. And incorrect interpretation in my opinion.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

So, if I asked 100 people if the US Constitution gave women the right to vote, what do you think the results would be?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Less accurate than if you asked 100 judges.

[JoeBob]

"Ed, name a taxpayer-supported program that excludes people based on their religious views. "

 

Would taxpayer provided footbaths for Muslim cab drivers in public airports qualify?

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/04/indy-airport-begins-installation-of.html

https://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?p=283535

 

How about Muslim only hours at the public pool to accomodate women in burkas? http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2009/jan/10/swimming-in-modesty-muslim-women-head-to-pool/

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

JoeBob writes:

Would taxpayer provided footbaths for Muslim cab drivers in public airports qualify?

 

If, as I said, some people are excluded based solely on their religious views, yes. But since these appear to be sinks in public restrooms, they seem to be usable by anyone, regardless of their religious views.

 

How about Muslim only hours at the public pool to accomodate women in burkas?

 

A public pool that can be rented by anyone to include or exclude anyone for that rental period isn't a taxpayer-supported program that excludes people based on religion, either.

 

Notice that last link mentions all-Muslim scout units in the USA. Can I form an all-atheist unit?

[evmori]

They sure would JoeBob!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No, they wouldn't, Ed. Try these tests:

 

1) go to the Indianapolis airport and say "I'm an atheist, can I use the floor sinks in this restroom?" See if the answer is "no".

 

2) go to the Cary pool and say "I'm an atheist, can I rent the pool for a private function for atheists only?" See if the answer is "no".

 

3) go to the C of L HQ in their $1/year building and say "I'm an atheist, can I be a scout member?" See if the answer is "no".(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[Stosh]

Go the the city parks and rec department and say, "I'm from a Christian can I rent the pavilion in the park?" I'm sure they won't say no. So if the scouts want to rent a building as a religious organization, there shouldn't be any big deal.

 

However, would an athiest group welcome a Christian or Muslim in their organizational membership? Nope. Any and all groups restrict membership to those that have similar interests, singling out BSA is nothing more than bigotry. As far as schools not welcoming BSA that's bogus and smacks of bigotry too. When I started a mission church, we met in the local public school for over a year until we got our building project underway.

 

Singling out BSA and restricting their efforts is no different than singling out Hebrews and restricting their efforts, but it is more socially acceptable to pick on Boy Scouts than Jews. Go figure. Bigotry takes on many forms, but it all smells the same.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Looks like you're arguing on my side, Stosh; the city is prepared to rent the building to the BSA for $200,000/year, the same rate as any other group. If the BSA vacates and, say, American Atheists wants to rent the building, they should get the same $200,000 rate quoted, right?

[evmori]

Why do you need to identify yourself as an atheist when asking these questions, with the exception of #3? Is it necessary information? If so, why is it necessary?

 

I'm a Christian but if I want to use a public pool, I pay my fee & go swimming. If I want to use a public washroom, I walk in, do my business & walk out. An atheist can do the same thing.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Well Ed, you and JoeBob seemed to think that his examples constituted taxpayer-supported programs that excluded people based solely on their religious views. If people of any religious views can use the floor sinks, it isn't an example of that, right? And if people of any religious views can rent the pool, that isn't an example either, right?

 

In my examples, atheists (and anyone else) can use #1 and #2, but atheists are barred from #3. So #1 and #2 are not examples of people being excluded solely due to their religious views.

 

Ed, it's really tedious having to explain the simplest concepts to you over and over. I suggest you think more.

[OldGreyEagle]

I don't think its that Ed doesnt understand the concept, he just disagrees with it. And nothing, no words will ever change his opinion and he has a right to his opinions as you have to yours. Nothing we say will convince you there the God of the bible exists and nothing you say will change Ed's mind. I guess you could say we are at a stand-off and to pursue either matter is well, silly

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

If Ed understood the concept, he wouldn't need to ask why the first two examples required being identified as an atheist. The VERY THING he was claiming, that floor sinks was an example of discrimination due to religious views, REQUIRES that the user's religious views be KNOWN in order to TEST whether particular religious views are required.

 

But he couldn't even see that. And he stated himself that anyone can walk in and use the sinks without needing to identify their religious views. So HOW COULD IT POSSIBLY BE AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING RESTRICTED BY ONE'S RELIGIOUS VIEWS?

 

Yet he claimed it was exactly THAT.

[BulldogBlitz]

"3) go to the C of L HQ in their $1/year building and say "I'm an atheist, can I be a scout member?" See if the answer is "no"."

 

 

why would someone want to join an organization that doesn't accomodate a certain viewpoint?

if there were an atheist youth program, would they accomodate non-atheists?