The American heartland

[Eagledad]

You guys quibble over words that are thousands of years old. They didn't loose there intended meaning then, and they don't now. Our culture may degrade into morale depravity at this time in history, but the bible will remain the same to those who read and follow it to the end of time. Most Christians who really struggle with the text either don't study the bible or are motivated politically. Also the bible supports what it does say about the lifestyle with what it doesn't say. Like; two mommy families or two daddy families.

 

Barry

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

There have been at least two disagreements in this thread so far, Ed.

[evmori]

And there will be a hundred more Merlyn. That doesn't prove your statement!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Of course it does, Ed. You aren't clear on the meaning of "clear."

[evmori]

Just because people disagree on the meaning of a passage doesn't make it inaccurate or unclear! All that means is people have a difference of opinion! Still doesn't prove your point!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Yes it does, Ed. If people disagree on what a sentence means, that sentence isn't clear. That's what the word means. I don't know what definition you're using; your use of words is often unclear.

[evmori]

Still no proof from you Merlyn. I'm out!

[Stosh]

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13 - RSV)

 

Same verse using 20th Century translation of the original manuscripts (Revised Standard Version) rather than the 16th Century translation of the original manuscripts (King James Version)

 

Obviously the original manuscripts spoke clearly enough for the people of that era as well as to ours of today.

 

Stosh

[evmori]

Thank you Stosh! That is crystal clear.

[DanKroh]

To me, the inconsistency is not with the wording of the handful of individual verses that mention homosexuality, it's with the way some churches have chosen to fixate on those verses and elevate homosexuality above other things that really are harmful to our society.

 

But then again, I'm with Trev. Don't really care what the Bible says, since it's not my religious book. "Because the Bible says so" is not a persuasive argument to me.

[Stosh]

Cherry picking verses has been a pastime for many generations. Maybe one doesn't like Leviticus, but other verses deal with murder and stealing, but unless those things are goring my ox, I guess they must be irrelevant as well. Human free-will has always allowed everyone to be their own god and make up their own rules by picking a few things here and there from a variety of different resources. This works well for the individual, but anytime two or more get together, there's always going to be a difference of opinion.

 

It simply boils down to if all I'm worried about is myself, things will be ok, but if I have to live in a world with other people, there's a possiblity of varying opinions on just about any issue.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

>>Don't really care what the Bible says, since it's not my religious book. "Because the Bible says so" is not a persuasive argument to me.

[packsaddle]

Eagledad, there are plenty of other options besides the two that you mentioned in that dichotomy.

 

Just using Ed as the example here, I think the problem is that those verses and their meaning seem clear to Ed - and because they do seem clear to Ed, Ed can't accept that they might not be clear to anyone else. Ed is projecting his own outlook onto everyone else.

At the same time, others who think the Bible is NOT clear can't accept that it IS clear to someone else (Ed in this case). To me this provides good support for the approach that Trevorum and Dan take by NOT viewing the Bible as the kind of authority that others seem to think it is. Unfortunately this elevates the communication disconnect to an even greater scale. Religion seems to accomplish this with great ease, the only solution would be for everyone to think what Ed thinks, in precisely the same way that Ed is thinking them. THAT is never going to happen.

 

It staggers the mind to think of how much time, resources, and energy has been wasted over the millenia, trying to sort all of this stuff out - to no avail. I suspect we never will.

But it conforms to evolutionary law: when individuals of a population occupy the same niche and exploit the same resources, intraspecific competition will tend to separate sub-populations that compete with each other for those resources, in time perhaps enough to become genetically distinct and perhaps reproductively isolated. Perhaps that is the real function that religion accomplishes. And if myths, God, or gods are necessary to do that, then we can blame evolution for that as well. Egad!(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[evmori]

AS flattered as I am, packsaddle, your not correct. Merlyn, an atheist, has stated the Bible isn't clear on homosexuality yet has not provided any references to that statement other than others opinions.

[packsaddle]

Ed, as Bob Dole has often said, "Down Boy!"