GernBlansten Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 TheScout, you are a binary person in a gray-scale world. You must use labels to categorize everything as either good or evil. No in between. By doing so, it makes your decisions easier. I consider it intellectually lazy, and fraught with danger. But if it works for you, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yah, I couldn't figure out why this thread was still goin' on, so I decided to look in on it. Here it is we managed to delete da vile remarks of some juvenile only to get 7 pages of baitin', shallow dialog from another juvenile. What's really telling, though, is how many forum members must be really good scouters in real life, because they fully engage with teenagers who are tryin' on different "extreme" modes of thought while lookin' to figure out what they really believe in. Shows how much yeh all care about kids, and how patient you must be in real life. Just funny how in forum-land it resembles feeding a troll. Now, TheScout, for your homework, you are to read your own Catholic Catechism to learn that your church does not share your view about "stomping out" heresy. Rather, it teaches a far more Christian and compassionate approach. Begin with Cat. 2089, which describes heresy as a personal sin, not a communal one. Then read through 817ff. Far from "stompin' out", your faith instructs you as a non-heretic to engage in personal renewal, conversion of heart, prayer, fraternal understanding, ecumenical formation, dialog, and collaboration with us heretics. No doubt because disunity and heretical notions arise principally from da personal failings and sinfulness of the faithful. Just as your personal approach here drives others away, rather than callin' them to the shared life of Christ. I reckon addressin' heresy begins in our own hearts, eh? Leastways, that's what your "infallible" church is sayin'. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScout Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 You correctly point out that the stomping out of heresy has been much watered down in recent decades, especially since Vatican II. However, the Church still has an array of sanctions against heretics that are used when it deems appropriate. Nonetheless, the Church still holds it is the only earthly aid to eternal salvation. Perhaps we should go back to a more active stomping out to save more souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I spent some 3 years in a Roman Catholic Seminary, St Charles Borromeo in Lockport Il, its in the Diocese of Joliet. I am still a practising Roman Catholic and I have to say the Church I studied and continue to study and belong to is a might different than the one you describe, but que sera, sera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScout Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 In what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yah, yeh really should do your homework rather than tryin' to fake it, eh? One cannot charge with the sin of separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them as brothers. All who have been justified by faith in baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church. Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements. Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as a means of salvation. I reckon it's truly a sadness that your church has failed to teach you the rudiments of its own catechism. Of course, maybe yeh did as well at your Sunday School homework as you do here, eh? Of course, yeh might reject such elements of your church's catechism along with statements of Vatican II documents like Unitatis redintegratio. But in the eyes of your church, rejectin' the authoritative teaching of an ecumenical council, the fullest expression of the magisterium, would probably be considered heresy. Anathema sit. You are yourself the heretic yeh claim yeh want to stomp out. Such is always da nature of human sinfulness, it rebounds upon the self. In Scoutin', I really believe we should help each scout to learn and appreciate his own tradition and faith, earn the religious awards for his own denomination and all that. You really should consider it, eh? The Pius XII medal yeh might find particularly apropos and age-appropriate. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScout Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 "There is one Universal Church of the faithful, outside of which there is absolutely no salvation." -Innocent III, Fourth Council of the Lateran, 1215 "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for Unam Sanctam, 1302 salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." -Boniface VIII "[The Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." -Eugene IV Council of Florence, 1442 The body of work has been added to but it seems pretty clear to me. Then you look to modern sources like the Catcheism: 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist." It says to me that other Christians can still be granted eternal life by through their imperfect communion with the Catholic Church, because it is still the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I stopped reading this thread after it was made clear that the answer to the original question had been clearly answered. That was after about the fourth reply. Nearly 100 posts later I figured I would see what the hub-bub was about. I glad to see I haven't missed anything. I'll go back to the "r" thread now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Yah, sorry TheScout. Yeh fail your homework and the theology of your own faith yet again. You Catholic types really have a very sophisticated theology of Church, and you apparently understand not a whit of it. Shame. Yeh really should look into workin' on the Pius XII medal. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Hey, what gives? I just got an email notification that OGE had replied to this thread. And I usually want to see what he writes so I came here and there's absolutely nothing from OGE. Did that reply get taken in a micro-rapture or something? What's going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Sorry pack, I didnt know I had a fan base to consider. I read what Beavah had to say and dashed off a quick retort to his what-I-had-considered-insult to Catholics. Then I reread it and slapped my forehead and thought OH, I misunderstood what was written and went and removed my post. As a moderator I can do that and have on occassion thought better of a post and removed it. Don't worry about me abusing being a moderator, I have had PM's from forum members asking me to remove posts they made and then thought better of So I censored myself, But wait, if I censor myself, am I not depriving me of my right to free speech? So, in that vein, I need not, nay I must not curtail any expression of any emotion at all, everything I think, feel, or experience MUST be uttered/posted as to do otherwise is an affront to the expression of free thought/speech. There is no need to choice words wisely as to do so inhibits the freedom of expression. I think I may have something here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Yeah, I suspected you were just flaunting your power. And yes, I can remember at least once that I asked you to make one of mine disappear (thank goodness for micro-raptures). I can just imagine, though, what diabolical thing you must have written to justify such a draconian measure. Next time make it a tastefully vulgar insult. Or better yet, just throw a label or two at him. Evidently that's sufficient. It doesn't have to make any sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 OGE, I fully support your self censoring and believe you should delete your posts far more other then you do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScout Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Well good thing for me one doesn't have to be a theologian for eternal salvaton! All one has to do is go to Church, listen to the Church, and confess when one doesn't do that so good. OGE, You mentioned Catholics in your last post! Isn't that a label? Shouldn't we not use labels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 OGEs song If some day it should happen that some victims must be found, I have this little list I have this little list Of scouter forum members who might well be underground, And who never would be missed Who never would be missed Theres the pestilential smokers who protest through coughs and rasps, All leaders who have flabby hands and irritating laughs. The lady in the dining hall who dresses like a guy, Who doesnt think she backpacks but would rather like to try. And the singular anomaly, the gun enthusiast, Theyd none of them be missed Theyd none of them be missed Refrain: Oh hes got them on the list Oh hes got them on the list And theyll none of them be missed Theyll none of them be - missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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