Vets: Hand Salute

[Kahuna]

I just discovered that Section Nine of Title Four, USC was changed in the past year to allow both veterans and active duty members of all services to render the hand salute to the U.S. Flag and during the playing of the national anthem while in civilian clothes. The veteran need not be wearing a VFW or other organization cap.

 

Just thought that was interesting.

[shortridge]

Veterans, of course, could have done this any time they wished to in the past. The Flag Code is not binding on civilians.

[John-in-KC]

Ahh, but the FY2009 National Defense Authorization Act gives explicit authority for former members of the Armed Forces, Reservists, Retirees, and Active Duty Soldiers, Sailors, Airmane and Marines to salute in mufti.

 

You will never see me give the Boy Scout salute again. Five fingers, thank you very much

 

I'll post exact details tomorrow.

[Gunny2862]

I hear you John but, for me, as a Serving SM, I am choosing to render the Boy Scout Salute when in Scouting uniform and the hand Salute at all other times. However, no more hand over the heart when I can salute. Yea!

[Kahuna]

>>The Flag Code is not binding on civilians

[John-in-KC]

Gunny,

 

You're in a direct contact position; that's your call. I'm not direct contact in a Boy Scout unit anymore. Where I am direct contact is a Venuring Crew, and that's the same Honors.

 

This change actually came through both the FY08 and FY09 National Defense Authorization Acts. The FY08 Act was HR 1585, and is PL 110-181:

 

SEC. 594. CONDUCT BY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES AND VETERANS

OUT OF UNIFORM DURING HOISTING, LOWERING, OR PASSING OF UNITED STATES FLAG.

 

Section 9 of title 4, United States Code, is amended by striking

all persons present and all that follows through the end of the

section and inserting the following: all persons present in uniform

should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes..

 

Now for the FY09 Act, found as S 3001 and PL 110-417

 

SEC. 1081. MILITARY SALUTE FOR THE FLAG DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM BY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES NOT IN UNIFORM AND BY VETERANS.

Section 301(b)(1) of title 36, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraphs (A) through © and inserting the following new subparagraphs:

(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem

and maintain that position until the last note;

(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

© all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress

with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and.

 

(Note: That last AND refers to the next section of the subtitle).

 

So there is the language.

[le Voyageur]

 

 

I've not use the BSA three finger salute in years since I've tendon damage in my right hand. The military salute is much easier for us old coots with these problems...

[shortridge]

Kahuna - I thought Title Four was the Flag Code, encompassing all Sections therein.

 

And isn't the Venturing salute already the full hand salute - no finger-bending necessary?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[eagle1977]

I may be a little short sighted here, but, oh well. . .

 

I am a veteran of 12 years in the Army and proud to have been able to serve. I am a volunteer adult Scouter and I am proud to be in that position.

 

When I am at a function in civilian clothes and not representing BSA I simply cover my heart with my hand out of respect for the flag. I no longer use the hand salute because I feel that I am no longer an active soldier. I do not question others and the way they show reverence to the flag.

 

However, when I am in my Scout uniform I render a three finger hand salute. This is simply because I am attempting to set the proper example to the boys I have volunteered to assist. The three finger hand salute is the proper way for the boys and I should show them that I support them and their program.

 

Funny, I thought was my role in Scouting, to be a mentor and lead by example.

 

 

 

[Kahuna]

>>Kahuna - I thought Title Four was the Flag Code, encompassing all Sections therein>And isn't the Venturing salute already the full hand salute - no finger-bending necessary?

[HICO_Eagle]

Thanks for the information. I was unaware of that change. I will still render the Scout salute when I am on a Scouting activity but will now use a proper salute instead of hand over heart on non-Scouting occasions.