Bad parents

[Trevorum]

 

 

I am a bad parent.

 

 

Well, at least according to some people on these forums simply because my religious faith is different from theirs.

 

Now, this type of nonsense just rolls off my back. But I am genuinely concerned about the impressionable youth who might be exposed to this brand of perfumed bigotry. Holier-than-thou evangelism simply has no place in Scouting. Moreover, any Scouter who conveys to a youth - either directly or indirectly - that he believes that his religion is better than that of the youth is worse than a "bad parent", he is guilty of committing emotional abuse on a juvenile.

 

 

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

Well, I have a couple of guys in our Troop that feel anyone who doesn't believe as they do are going to Hell - and one of them told me that to my face. Both boys have been quite vocal about their beliefs, and discussions with them about the BSA stance regarding religion prompted some rather negative comments from their parents about MY belief system.

[DanKroh]

Don't forget the part how my faith obviously isn't real faith because I'm not willing to brainwash my children with it.

 

Personally, I have some very strong thoughts about the parenting of people who indoctrinate their children and don't allow them to think for themselves, but good manners prevent me from telling anyone that to their face.

 

But here's a story. I went to Thanksgiving dinner at a friend's parents' house a couple of years ago. My friend's brother called the family together before dinner to make an announcement. Seems his 3-year-old(!) daughter had "accepted Jesus" that morning, and he wanted to express his pride in her before everyone. Now, does anyone seriously believe that "accepting Jesus" meant anything at all to that 3-year-old other than that she said something that made Daddy happy?

 

I'd much rather my children wait to make a declaration of faith at a point where they have the psychosocial maturity for it to actually mean something to them, not to me. And I think that their faith will be all that stronger when it is one that they have chosen, knowing as much as they can about their choices. How can you know if a faith is really "true" if you know nothing about the alternatives?

[GernBlansten]

Count me in as a bad parent.

 

But my kids are well adjusted, do very well in school, get along with others, my son is an Eagle scout and still active as a JASM.

 

I guess that is the cost of being a bad parent.

[Narraticong]

According to the New Testament, the only way to reach Heaven is through Jesus. That is very clear to those of us who are Christians. So, yes, we do believe that all other religions and gods are false, in the sense that they do not accept those words from Jesus. The Bible does not say maybe, or that there may be other options. Our belief is that the result of belief in anything other than the above will lead to eternity in Hell.

 

A Christian would then believe that parents who teach their children anything else are leading those children toward eternal damnation. In that sense they are being "bad" parents.

 

How we lead our daily lives on earth is a totally different matter. There are many non-Christians in my life who are warm, caring people who do tremendous good works for our community. I am grateful for all they do, and I thank God for them every day. My Christian faith lets me know that God loves them just as he loves me. For that reason, I pray every day that they will come to know the Lord. You see, my faith also tells me that all the good works in the world will do us no good once we leave the world, unless we know Jesus. On the other hand, the thief on the cross next to Jesus lives on in Heaven. Grace is a wonderful thing!

 

We can all pick incongruities from any denomination. I happen to agree that it might be difficult for a three year old to "accept Jesus" in a conscious manner. Many wrong deeds have been done in the name of Christianity over the years. That is a result of our sinful nature. Our pride continues to get in the way. Again, it does not matter how many good deeds I do, God knows I continue to screw up every day. But because of Jesus, God chooses not to see those sins.

 

As Americans, and as Scouts, we believe in freedom of choice. We tolerate different political, religious, and philisophical beliefs. In this sense I think tolerate does not mean I must beleive all religions are "good", or that all are "the same". But, I do believe as an American, and as a Scout, we all have a right to freely believe in whatever we choose.

 

Do I impose my beliefs on my Scouts? Certainly not. But I also am right up front about doing my best to live my life according to my faith. Doing elsewise would be a lie. When matters of faith come up, Scouts are asked to do things as their own faith suggests. But if a Scout, fellow leader, or parent asks particulars about my faith, I will gladly share.

 

I make no apology if others find my beliefs make them uncomfortable. The fact is they make me uncomfortable sometimes too! I know that on my own, I deserve to spend eternity in Hell!

 

 

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

I have no problem at all with people having different faiths, beliefs, or whatever. I know Christians believe that the only way to Heaven is through belief in Jesus as savior and that all others will not get into Heaven. Again, no problem with that. What I have a problem with is an eleven-year-old telling me that I'm going to Hell, and his parents essentially backing him up on that, since I don't subscribe to his particular brand of religion.

 

[Horizon]

From the Handbook:

 

"A Scout is Reverent.

A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others."

 

That last sentence seems to be forgotten at times by some Scouters. I have a Minister in my troop who now serves as the Troop Chaplain. Before he took the position we had a cup of coffee to discuss how he would feel about following the Scout Law as the Troop Chaplain. He admitted that it would be a challenge to him, but that he felt that he could walk the line.

[Beavah]

Moreover, any Scouter who conveys to a youth - either directly or indirectly - that he believes that his religion is better than that of the youth is worse than a "bad parent", he is guilty of committing emotional abuse on a juvenile.

 

Yah, I reckon you're overstatin' the case, Trevorum.

 

By the time they hit their teen years in Scouting, the youth are perfectly aware of adult eccentricities and foibles, eh? I don't think it's reasonable to expect a scientist not to share his interest and love of science with the boys, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect a Christian not to in some ways share their love of Christ. The more fundamental Christian kids aren't goin' to be harmed by knowing their Scoutmaster believes in evolution, nor are the wiccan kids going to be harmed by knowing their Scoutmaster believes in Christ.

 

That's how the lads eventually make their own choice, eh? By knowing what is out there that they're choosing between. And anyone who's ever been a parent knows that our power to "indoctrinate" is pretty limited when it comes to teenagers. We provide a foundation, perhaps, but da choice is always theirs. Providin' a foundation isn't "abuse". It's being a caring adult.

 

When someone tells me I'm goin' to hell because I'm not their particular flavor of Christian, I just thank 'em for caring enough to let me know. Then I advise 'em that in their ministry they should consider followin' the example and instructions of the Lord, eh? Rather than confrontation and admonishment, when yeh come to preach, greet the person:

 

Peace be with you!

 

Beavah

 

Beavah

 

[SR540Beaver]

I know I've said it here a thousand times before. I'm a Southern Baptist. I have a degree in religion. I've actually spent a short time in the ministry. I know what I believe and I know why I believe it. All of that being said, I understand what the term non-sectarian means. On more than one occasion, I have been approached by a small group of adults in our troop looking for me to support their cause. Seems they believe that the BSA is a Christian organization and that they and their sons are being discriminated against because the Chaplain teaches to end prayers with a simple "amen" rather than "in Jesus name, amen". We are quashing their religious beliefs in favor of people who don't say in Jesus name. Their reasoning is that our charter is a Methodist church and BSA is a Christian organization and that some scouters have twisted things in such a way as to discriminate against Christians. Do what? I actually asked them, what part of non-sectarian do you not understand. To them, it meant that the BSA didn't discriminate between different denominations of Christianity. I just looked at them with a blank stare. These are highly educated folks I'm dealing with too. I asked them how they were going to deal with the folks who demanded that we say "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" over "in Jesus name". I got back the same blank stare I had given them. I told them we had much bigger fish to fry than haggling over semantics, but they disagreed. It kind of ticks us Christian church going scouters off that some of our fellow Christian scouters think we are intolerant of Christianity and denying their sons to follow their beliefs.

[CalicoPenn]

There really is only one way to answer someone who tells you you're going to hell:

 

"I'll make sure and say hello to your Grandmother when I get there"

[mmhardy]

So I'm a bad parent...here is what I wrote on our son's Eagle recommendation letter.

 

"As a family, we take the 12th point of the Scout Law as a private personal matter. XXXX's father, has a formal Catholic religious education and his mother taught in a Catholic school and that has fostered conversations at the dinner table and private moments on how to lead ones life and trust in a higher power greater then yourself. We have pointed out endless times that Jesus did his best work outside the temple and among the neediest. We hope that our son endeavors to those same spiritual steps in his own life."

 

To us "accepting" or "trusting" does not go far enough. That is only the beginning. We hope to lead by example just has He taught us. Thanks for the thread.

[packsaddle]

I'll turn the other cheek and forgive Beavah's misunderstanding and comparison of science to religion.

 

But Calico, I guess I'll likely be there to greet you, too, in that mythical place that doesn't really exist. I have to admit, the condemnation by my Methodist friend (when I told him my family is in a different faith) was a surprise when it happened. After reading the threads on this forum....what was I thinking?

 

Later, the Baptist Church down the street announced that any of their members who are friends with members of my faith "...walk with Satan." My response when I heard this was...COOL! I guess that may have been the wrong end of the thermostat, though.

 

Doesn't seem to bother the parents in this unit though, to know that Lucifer (another mythical figure that doesn't really exist) is one of the ASMs. You guys can just refer to me as Lucy from now on.

 

That stuff rolls off my back too, as Father Reginald Foster says, it's just a lot of nonsense. But it did bother me when their children started taunting my children at school, saying that they're going to hell. My children were unprepared for this form of put-downs. They got over it...over the years...and also, with the help of those put-downs, recognize nonsense when they hear it.

 

I think Trevorum's main point is correct. That kind of proselytizing action has no place in this unit. We have had Buddhist, Hindu, Janist, Jewish, UUs, and various flavors of Protestants over the years and most of the parents would find other accommodations if someone started pushing their own faith on the boys. But you know, if BSA allowed local option for membership policies, none of this would be a problem. The parents would make their market-based decisions and some units would thrive and others would be selected against.

After all, as The Scout says, the purpose of religion is not to bring people together. Quite right! Nice quote...think it will go right into the collection.

[evmori]

There will always be those who feel there denomination is the "only" one. The rub is when they beat you over the head with it about everything!

 

Oh, BTW, I'm one of those Bad Parents, too!

[DanKroh]

Welcome to the club, Ed. What's your sleeve length? We're having jackets made....

 

[shortridge]

"But you know, if BSA allowed local option for membership policies, none of this would be a problem. The parents would make their market-based decisions and some units would thrive and others would be selected against."

 

Not to hijack the thread, but I struggle over this one. Part of the large attraction of Scouting, to me, is its general universality. (I'm putting the gays and atheist issue aside for right now.) Local option could mean that in a mostly conservative Christian area, say, all the units end up excluding Jews. So the one Jewish boy who's really intensely interested in Scouting would have to go the Lone Scout route, and not get the benefit of associating with other boys.

 

And if every aspect of membership were local option - including race or ethnicity, say - I think the congressional charter would be yanked in a heartbeat.

 

The flipside, I suppose, is that units could choose to allow gays or atheists or anyone of any religious character whatsoever. To me, that's positive. It would just depend on the units.

 

- Bad Parent