Defending the Scout Oath

[aquaticeagle]

"Shoulda been more specific. Homosexual couples can't procreate without outside help where traditional couples can. And yeah I know not all traditional couples can & need outside help but not 100% of the time."

 

Why does it matter? The fact is that some straight couples can't conceive either so if you're going to say that homosexuals shouldn't be together for that reason then you might as well say that sterile men and women should remain single and anyone else who has no chance of conception. You gonna try to tackle that?

[evmori]

Why does it matter?

 

Let's see. I can't think of the name of the religious group that prohibited relations between the male & female members & it is no longer in existence.

[aquaticeagle]

What's your point?

[evmori]

I'm still trying to figure out you point! Being physically strong doesn't mean being a health nut or a body builder. You want to dispute how someone can smoke & have a few beers & be physically strong?

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, you are thinking of "Shakers" quite a large religious group (for a time) that held that all memebrs were to be celibate.

[Horizon]

evmori:

 

Smoking: The evidence against smoking is clear across thousands of research studies - when you smoke, you are weaker than if you abstained from smoking. Anyone who smokes is not doing their best to be physically strong. If you wish to get the numbers down to a few decimal places, just price two life or health insurance policies - one for a smoker and one for a non-smoker.

 

Drinking: Alcohol consumption, however, is different. For the majority of the population (genetic variation being a factor with some), the light to medium consumption of alcohol can have a positive health effect. However, there is a negative mental effect whenever someone is drinking, which justifies the "no alcohol" part of BSA's policies in my opinion.

[aquaticeagle]

evmori, please don't do what people were doing at the beginning of this thread and put words in my mouth. I never defined "physically strong" I simply provided the definition that the BSA has written in every Boy Scout handbook and asked why they don't enforce that part of the Oath.

 

Also, in regards to your PM, why would we be destined for an extremely corrupt and immoral society if homosexuality became normal? Can you back that up?

[evmori]

Horizon,

 

Nice copy & paste. While I agree, smoking is harmful, it effects everyone differently. And I agree with the "No Alcohol" at Scouting events. Never said I didn't.

 

 

aquaticeagle,

 

Do you agree with what you copied & pasted in the opening thread? Plus, a PM is meant to be PRIVATE hence the name Private Message.

 

 

[aquaticeagle]

I agree that to be scouts should avoid smoking, drinking and illegal drugs as the BSA definition states but I also understand that it would be very unrealistic to expect that of every member. Again, the discussion of this thread is not what "physically strong" means but why the BSA chooses to ignore that very specific part of the Oath while enforcing the part that is very ambiguous and not specific.

 

Yes, I understand the purpose of the PM system but I wonder why you wouldn't want everyone in the discussion to see the "extremely immoral and corrupt" part about homosexuals in society. This is a discussion that everyone on this thread is involved in so when answering a question asked on the thread, it should be answered on the thread.

[evmori]

Again, the discussion of this thread is not what "physically strong" means but why the BSA chooses to ignore that very specific part of the Oath while enforcing the part that is very ambiguous and not specific.

 

How did the BSA ignore this? Or is this just your opinion? What does physically strong mean to you?

[aquaticeagle]

Okay once again, it doesn't matter what "physically strong" means to me because the discussion is not about that. The discussion is partly about why the BSA ignores its own definition of "physically strong". Here it is...again:

 

". . . To keep myself physically strong, . . .

 

Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime. That means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to build strength and endurance. it also means avoiding harmful drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and anything else that can harm your health." - Boy Scout Handbook

 

How do they ignore it? Have they kicked anyone out for smoking or drinking? It clearly states here in the definition of the Oath that scouts should avoid smoking and drinking. Since it's spelled out clearly here and being gay is NOT spelled out clearly in "morally straight", shouldn't smokers and drinkers be more heavily punished?

 

Once again, I don't personally believe that smokers and drinkers should be removed anymore than I believe that gays should. I just believe that if the BSA is going to use the Oath to remove people from membership, they should honor the entire Oath and not just the parts that they like.

[evmori]

Does the BSA kick out overweight people? Do they boot those who have had premarital sex? Have they booted leaders who are adulterers? To they kick out very low IQ people or those who are mentally deficient?

 

My father-in-law is 89 years old & has had both knees, shoulders & a hip replaced! He quit smoking 50 years ago & only had an occasional beer! His body isn't serving him well & his life isn't over!

 

What exactly is your point? Do you want homosexuals to be Scout leaders?

 

 

 

[aquaticeagle]

"Does the BSA kick out overweight people? Do they boot those who have had premarital sex? Have they booted leaders who are adulterers? To they kick out very low IQ people or those who are mentally deficient?

 

My father-in-law is 89 years old & has had both knees, shoulders & a hip replaced! He quit smoking 50 years ago & only had an occasional beer! His body isn't serving him well & his life isn't over!

 

What exactly is your point? Do you want homosexuals to be Scout leaders?"

 

I'm not sure of your point in writing any of the above except the last sentence. Why would I have a problem with a homosexual scout leader? Why do you? Are you going to tell me now how homosexuals are leading the country in child molestation cases? I hope not because there is absolutely no research to support that claim. It is something spouted by bigots and has nothing to back it up.

[evmori]

I'm not going to tell you anything like that, aquaticeagle!

 

You seem to be stuck on the BSA not enforcing one point of the Scout Oath yet being physically strong is also effected by other factors besides smoking & drinking but you don't seem to want to take those into consideration. And my point is if you are gonna make that type of stand, ya better be ready to apply the same logic to the entire Oath. If not, you are pushing nothing more than you own personal agenda.

 

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em~

 

OGE - Thanks! It was the Shakers I was thinking of! Actually visited one of their communities in Kentucky! Interesting!

[aquaticeagle]

"I'm not going to tell you anything like that, aquaticeagle!

 

You seem to be stuck on the BSA not enforcing one point of the Scout Oath yet being physically strong is also effected by other factors besides smoking & drinking but you don't seem to want to take those into consideration. And my point is if you are gonna make that type of stand, ya better be ready to apply the same logic to the entire Oath. If not, you are pushing nothing more than you own personal agenda." evmori

 

I agree that "physically strong" is affected by the other factors that you mentioned. I never said they weren't. I'm not taking those into consideration in this discussion because they aren't defined by the Oath and the entire focus of this discussion is what the BSA includes specifically in its definition. Since none of those other things that you listed are in that definition, they have no place in this conversation.

 

I AM applying the same logic to the entire Oath. That's the whole point of this thread that I started. Have you been reading?

 

The BSA defines the parts of the Oath in the Boy Scout handbook. This whole discussion is about enforcing all of that definition instead of just parts of it. If you would like to start a discussion about whether or not the BSA should expand its definition of "physically strong" to include those things you mentioned, that's fine but that is not the topic of this discussion and it was never meant to be.