Pro-choice quandary

[ASM915]

Scoutldr and Merlyn,

I have to go along with Scout on this one. Sldr, if they made the mistake of going spread eagle in the first place, then allowing a government sanction murder to take place, where is the responsibility? Sounds like the easy way out.

 

Now the unborn, next the malformed, then the old decrepit and aged. I don't think so.

 

There is a choice and a responsible outcome. Responsibility would be to not commit a sactioned murder. Who knows, maybe God was sending that particular aborted unborn to be the cure for cancer, or had some other great plan for them, but now their in the incinerator and we'll never know. The choices? TO KEEP THE BABY AND TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF BECOMING A PARENT, OR PUT IT UP FOR ADOPTION!!!

 

WOW!!! NOW THAT IS PRO-CHOICE!!!

 

I wonder where PETA positions themselves on this issue? Probably should be Pro-Life. SAVE THE ANIMALS!!!! Oh, I thought that us humans were part of the animal kingdom. We are animals aren't we?

 

Sldr, I totally agree with you that money needs to be spent on the education to prevent pragnancy, but not to kill the unborn. My wife use to see 11 and 12 y/o's coming in pregnant. I've been in on deliveries of 14 and 15 y/o. Maybe Falwell had the right idea.

[evmori]

I don't want my daughters to be punished for making a mistake by being forced to have a baby!

 

Punished? For what? Being irresponsible?

 

The mistake isn't the baby! The mistake is your daughter's poor judgment! What if your daughter would have been an unwanted pregnancy?

 

Abortion isn't the responsible answer, Merlyn. It's the easy way out! It's murder plain & simple. You should be thankful you weren't aborted.

[Rythos]

Can anyone really claim surprise about where this conversation is going or will end up? Most of us could have guessed who would be on which side of this thread long before it even started.

 

It has remained civil longer than I thought it would though.

 

Ry

[packsaddle]

This whole argument is BS. The woman will always have the choice, the technology is not going to vanish - it's too simple...and eventually there will be biochemical ways to terminate pregnancies that are undetectable and private.

The only thing in question is how much it will cost, its convenience, and its safety. None of that other stuff is going to change the fact that she will decide and that her decision will be based on how she weighs the factors in her life. Get over it.

[Beavah]

None of that other stuff is going to change the fact that she will decide and that her decision will be based on how she weighs the factors in her life.

 

Yah, exactly. So da question is only what do we choose to help and encourage, eh?

 

A lad in a troop will always have the ability to choose to steal, or not. He will decide and his decision will be based on how he weighs the factors in his life.

 

Our choice is only on what we stand for, what example we give, what credo we teach the lad ("A Scout is Trustworthy..."), and what organizations we support (like scouting). Yah, sure, and our compassion for da small fraction of scouts who are tempted to steal because of their personal poverty, as well as for da scout thief when he repents and makes amends.

 

The issue of choice ain't just for da person making the choice to commit a particular act or not, eh? We can't control their choice. Da real choice is da moral question for each of us about what we personally care for and support, and what example we set for others.

 

Me, da example I hope to set is one where sex is somethin' special that is shared with Mrs. Beavah, that havin' kids is a great gift to the world not to be discarded just so yeh can avoid inconvenience or preserve your lifestyle, that both a man and a woman stand up and take responsibility for their acts, and that da only community worth living in is one that cares for its kids.

 

All of 'em.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[TheScout]

I would hope I don't have to "get over" murder. What a sad way of thinking.

[ASM915]

Just read an interesting article that my brother sent. It is from WorldNetDaily dated 1/29/2009, called "Media Malpractice at Right For Life March". The person writing the article was at the march to do a documentary on Right for Life. One of their objectives was to talk with the Pro-Choice protesters at the march. When the day was done, they were hard pressed to find any Pro Choicers to talk with.

But the national networks and papers seem to portray the Pro-Choicers as coming out of the woodwork and being everywhere.

 

Interesting!!!

[Narraticong]

My personal beliefs bring me down solidly on the side of anti-abortion. That is, until you start making me think about the real world.

 

I'm the father of a 14 year old daughter. She is a great kid with sound morals. But there are a lot of temptations in the world. What if one day she makes a mistake? I made my share and may be lucky to be alive.

 

Would I be able to turn her life upside down? Or would an abortion be the lesser of two evils? We would still have to live with the thought of having committed that murder? But life, and college, and career, could go on.

 

It's an easy question to answer when you don't really have to deal with it. I pray I never have to.

[packsaddle]

Narraticong, I'm sure Beavah and The Scout would be glad to make the decision for her (and you) through legislation that tries to limit access. I know people who have already faced the hard decision after their daughters made some of those sad mistakes. The point is, THEY made the decision. Not the government. All government can do is make the decision even more difficult and more expensive.

[Eagledad]

>>All government can do is make the decision even more difficult and more expensive.

[Mr. Boyce]

Abortion is murder, plain and simple.

 

The real deception here is allowing murder because no one wants to get women upset; abortion is an evil that finds its protection under the guise of "women's rights."

 

Have you ever noticed how men have been shut out of the debate? As if the father (or, heck, any man) has absolutely no say in whether society should permit this evil to exist?

[Liz]

"95% of the so-called "pro-life" people I ever met are also for the death penalty"

 

I guess I'm in that other 5%. I am against the death penalty, war, AND abortion.

 

I don't have a real strong opinion on Obama's decision to rescind the "gag order." I also don't have a very strong opinion on exactly how to write legislation regarding abortion. At this point in time, I don't think it's realistic to try and make it illegal. I hope for a day when our society will offer real choices, not just the Hobson's Choice that many women face when they have an unplanned pregnancy.

 

One thing I do wish people could agree on is something that would protect pregnant women from coerced abortions. Most reasonable people, whether pro-Life or pro-Choice, agree that women should not be forced to have abortions. The people who push the pro-Choice legislation through, on the other hand, seem to think it's better to have women forced into abortions than to risk making anybody second-guess their decision to have one. Heaven forbid we offer counseling to teenage girls who seek an abortion, to screen them and make sure they're making the choice of their own free will -- we might accidentally discourage one of them from following through with it!

 

I have known too many people who have been driven to abortion clinics by angry boyfriends. One time, I knew a 14 year old girl who, when she got over the "shock" of finding out she was pregnant, dumped her loser boyfriend, quit drugs, and started secretly seeing a doctor for prenatal care. She even decided she was going to learn to knit. When she was pregnant enough that she started showing, she finally got up the courage to tell her mother she was expecting. Her mother drove her to the abortion clinic and she had an abortion that very hour. I don't know how things would have turned out if this young woman had given birth to that baby, but I can say for certain that she did not have a CHOICE.

 

So... maybe we can't make laws preventing women from choosing abortion. But can we at least make some laws which will protect women who choose to give birth to living babies?

 

-Liz

[packsaddle]

It is incumbent on those who want to regulate this technology to define realistically what the terms are. It is easy to speak the words, "Life is sacred" and "abortion is murder". What that bumper sticker approach doesn't do is the hard work of carefully stating what you would have in place of what you have now.

At what stage of development should the law draw the line?

What is the decision-making process that will address life-threatening situations?

What punishment do you apply to those who break the law?

What government institutions do you engage to assimilate and care for babies that women are forced to carry to term?

Do you try to punish those who have the resources to cross the state line?

Current popular birth control methods commit millions of abortions that you don't even know about. Are you going to allow that to continue?

Are you going to try to stop the development of molecular biological methods that will completely replace surgical techniques, invisibly? How?

These are just a few of the questions that must be answered in a manner that is better than something you can put on a bumper sticker. So far, after 6 years of a pro-life President and a majority pro-life congress, NOTHING has been answered with legislation. SIX years.

Either the pro-life advocates are in a minority or else they're incompetent to address the issue in a way that can produce viable legislation.

The pro-life movement had the perfect storm for their cause and they didn't do it. Get over it.

 

Edited part: Liz, I guess we were typing almost at the same time. Re: the 14 year old girl you mentioned, I think that as bad as that situation was, it hardly would have been improved by government intruding with its nose. As it is, you can take some solace in the fact that you are free to go tsk, tsk, with no further responsibility for the outcome. That responsibility is being borne by those who made their mistakes and the decisions. As it should be.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[TheScout]

packsaddle, you make it a lot harder than it is.

 

Life starts at conception. Any killing of a baby after that is murder.

[John-in-KC]

Lisa, I also have to weigh in with Beavah on this one. That said, I believe the pro-life movement has not done its full share of the heavy-lifting: We don't have as many options for helping a young lady in trouble make it through pregnancy, keeping her baby either to be its mother or to offer it in adoption.

 

We don't fund, through Medicaid, sufficient pre-natal care for a young woman who has been rejected by her parents.

 

And yes, we can get rather stupid on other aspects of life, too, including what to do with the most heinous of felons.

 

As for me, I've been a member of the "rape, incest, and LIFE of the mother" exception school for some time now. If some other pro-life folk don't like that, tough.

 

Finally, we also have to wrap a handle around our social services such that having a child is not a winning lottery ticket for $$$ from the State. I've seen the families in my neck of he woods where there are 4 generations inside of 60 years old.