"I Hope Obama Fails"

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

This shows how you have no conception of tyranny other than your silly anti-religion crusade.

 

No, this shows my opinion differs from yours. The navy never had such a limit, only the army.

 

Nobody would have thought it would expand so to merit its own branch.

 

False, but irrelevant. We're only discussing what's constitutional, not what people did or didn't think of.

 

Maintaining foreign bases and paying rent for them is different than foreign aid.

 

Not always; suppose congress thinks that foreign aid to a country *might* pay off with permission to build a military base 10 years down the road?

 

What about all the countries we aid with no bases?

 

Aiding them may increase America's security in other ways.

 

You seem to warp the meaning of the word necesary.

 

I'm only using your warped version. You say congress can only do what the constitution says, but then you say they can regulate air forces when that isn't listed (and even though it was certainly conceivable at the time). If regulating an entire branch of the US military can be read in, so can giving aid to other countries.

[vol_scouter]

Merlyn,

 

Actually, I agree that there should be a constitutional amendment to include air force and space forces (looking to the future). I have little concern that it will pass. I would have no concern before we elected a socialist president. The idea for the country is a strict interpretation of the constitution and for amendments to be made to fix the issues as they occur involving the people in the ratification process. The courts have usurped the proper roles in government.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Some other interesting facts; Ben Franklin was at that first hot-air balloon flight in France, and also wrote letters discussing their possible military use, all before the constitution was written. So I'm forced to conclude the authors deliberately did not want congress to militarize the air.

[TheScout]

For the first 30 years of military aircraft it was part of the Army and the Navy. The USAF was not created until 1947.

 

Anyway. There is a reason the 2 year limit only applied to the Army and not the Navy.

[packsaddle]

I guess those were rented pilots and planes that we flew in World War I. I wonder what 'USAAS' stands for?

My father was in World War II and he serviced and flew on bombers and other planes in combat. There was no Air Force. It was only the Army...the Army Air Corps. The Air Force was unnecessary as the Army had it covered nicely. Also, the Navy had their own aircraft as well. The guys who flew there were called 'Navy Pilots'. I wonder what they're called today? As I understand it, both the Army and the Navy still have their own aircraft. What a waste, having the unnecessary administrative redundancy of an Air Force!

 

Narraticong, if you read the link in my previous post it will be very disheartening for you. But I disagree, there should never be any unnecessary spending no matter what the situation. The problem we're in right now is due to a lie that we've all allowed for a very long time, called deficit spending. There was a glimmer of hope when Clinton was on track with surpluses and paying down debt. But the last couple of years, I fear, have permanently ruined us. It is clear that Obama has no solutions. I can't blame him because in the long run there ARE no solutions except to suffer the consequences.

 

I probably won't live to see the ultimate collapse...but then I didn't think the current situation would happen this quickly either. The trillions that we're wasting now amount to nothing more than a huge theft in order to cover a previous huge theft. It doesn't fix anything, it's just kiting more checks. What we need to do is what you have done in your personal life. We won't. And we're going to take you down with us and there's nothing you can do about it. Have a nice day.

 

Edited, OK the pre-Air Force air force posts were written while I was still typing. Sorry(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

TheScout, you're still ignoring the fact that the constitution only allows congress to regulate land and naval forces, not air forces. Anything that flies, even if it's attached to the army or navy, isn't a land or naval force and can't be regulated by congress.

 

Since you want to open up the necessary and proper clause wide enough to cover military use of air forces, that also enables congress to justify foreign aid. So you're stuck.

[TheScout]

What it really comes down to is you want no limit on the federal government spending power. I think there should be a limit.

 

So what does the list of enumerations mean to you?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No, but now you've gone over into pretending that you can read my mind, so I'm obviously not needed in any conversation. You can just make up whatever straw man you like and claim that's what I think.

[TheScout]

I still want to know what the list means to you.

[Narraticong]

Packsaddle-

 

I agree that I don't think things will get better any time soon. I believe our country is in a spiral that will result in some very major changes of SOME type. I have no idea what they may be. Many people will be put in a terrible situation. But please don't be so sure that I am going down with you. Many people in America are prepared and capable to survive the coming changes, be they economic, political, or whatever. And there is also the question of whether this is the Apocolypse. Only God knows when those final days are. But I'm hopeful my Christian Faith will carry me through those tribulations should that be the case.

 

Americans have proven themselves to be survivors. Our parents and grand parents survived the Depression. Some of us are capable of surviving another, even worse economic downturn. As Scouts, we learn to "Be Prepared". For that reason, I think I have an edge over some people (Merlyn?).

 

We shall see what the future holds and do our best to be ready. Me and my household? I shall put my Faith in God.

[Hal_Crawford]

Packsaddle:

This is a total aside to the general blather of this thread but I believe your father flew for the United States Army Air Forces. The name changed 20 June 1941, almost 6 months before Pearl Harbor. My Father-in-Law was a mechanic for B-24s in North Africa and 29s on Saipan and he would always correct those who called it the Air Corps. The USAAF became the USAF on 17 September 1947. USAF was at least the seventh name for that service.

 

Hal

[packsaddle]

Hal, interesting. You are probably correct. He joined the Air Corps long before the war so that's probably the source of the confusion in my mind. He worked on welds, and hydraulic systems but never got as far as the B-24. He was stationed all over the place but did his training at Chinook Field, later stationed in the Galapagos, some other places and ended the war in Italy. He left me with some great photos of B-17s B-12s, etc. as well as autogyros and even the old Martin Mars. Some of the photos are of formations over the Alps. Nice. I still have some flak he picked out of returning planes.

I didn't know until nearly the end of his life how badly the war had scarred him. But that is another very sad tale.

[BrentAllen]

pack,

I believe they are now refered to as "Naval Aviators." Didn't you see Top Gun? :-)

[packsaddle]

Yeah, I stand corrected. I got an interesting PM on that as well. Thanks.

[Hal_Crawford]

Gotta admire anyone who can land a fixed wing aircraft on a carrier deck.