Save the Sea Kittens!!!!

[2eagles]

Perhaps people need to get a clue and not take everything personally. They need to get away from the world revolves around me and what I believe. I have heard tons of blond jokes and skits. I find them funny- i am also blond. I don't find it funny when folks decide to be offended. Decide is the key word. None of this forum is calling anyone up and getting in their face about their beliefs -- they are expressing their own views which do not match. Call it exchange of information.

[GernBlansten]

So if someone mocks the beliefs of the LDS or the Roman Catholics, that's fine as long as we don't get personal about it?

[FScouter]

Gern, it does make one wonder how there could be any pleasure derived from mocking the beliefs and values of another, even if those beliefs and methods are "kooky". Folks reveal their character in different ways; you've revealed a bit of yours as well.

[evmori]

So if someone mocks the beliefs of the LDS or the Roman Catholics, that's fine as long as we don't get personal about it?

 

No one has said that, Gern.

 

You do have to admit PETA is a little over the top! Sea Kittens! What's next! Air Puppies?

[2eagles]

That was not what I meant Gern. Although there was an old catholic skit that everyone loved -- including the catholics. Also define mock= does that also mean disagree. My point was people are too busy looking for unintended slights. In all honesty just about every comment anyone makes can be taken as a slight. Mocking is when harm or loss of honor or respect is intended. But from what I gather of your statements, if your boss told you - you did a terrible job he would be mocking your effort. Or saying the current liberal history texts rely more on opinion than facts would be mocking the writers.

[packsaddle]

I think Monty Python is OK.

Now, on the meaner side, I also enjoy reading H.L. Mencken.

So what is wrong with 'mocking' religion...other than the fact that someone might kill you for it? Or maybe throw a shoe at you...or even PRAY for you, heaven forbid. I regularly poke fun at the 1996 rapture and the fact that the rest of us, even those born later, are left behind. I mean...if you've been left behind what's to worry about a little mockery? And also the nearby church that does the outdoor 'mock' crucifixions (at least I sure hope those things are 'mock' ones.) They'll be at it again this spring and I'll have some more fun. Am I wrong?

 

When does poking fun or satire or ridicule become mockery? Is it a matter of perception by the recipient as in sexual harrassment? Fact is, I just spent a couple of hours helping a class to understand some scientific deceptions. We made it more humorous and fun by applying ridicule. I'm not sure we mocked anyone though..well, maybe the Pope.

Is the South being mocked by the Dukes of Hazzard, or by the Beverly Hillbillies? Are we mocked by Jeff Foxworthy? Were we mocked by Oh Brother Where Art Thou or Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, etc?

 

I admit I have thick skin. The only thing that I react to is when some yankee tries to portray a character with a Southern accent. Can't be done with anything close to authenticity. But I liked John Boy anyway, even if he doesn't know how to pronounce Kudzu.

[GernBlansten]

There have been 3 pages of you all having a grand ole' time making fun of PETA.

Now, I don't agree with everything that PETA does, but I do agree with most of what they do. I don't like dog fighting, cock fighting, fashion fur, animal entertainment. But I'm not a vegetarian. So a lot of PETA members would shun me. That's OK. I'm not offended.

 

I also don't agree with a lot of what the LDS and Roman Catholics believe. But the Scout Law keeps me from making fun of their beliefs. A scout is reverent. It is valuing the right of another person to hold beliefs that you know to be wrong. I have seen demonstrated here a disregard of that law. Normally, on any other venue, I would allow this to pass, but this is a website dedicated to Scouters. Those of us who we trust to instill the scout law to our youth.

 

Allow me to ask this question: If your scouts started mocking the beliefs of someone (say a Rastafarian), would you correct their behavior and recite the 10th law, or would you contribute to the mockery?

[evmori]

I dunno Gern. Ya seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. While here you are a little miffed by the pokes everyone has been taking at PETA, yet on other threads you tend poke at other things. Seems like a double standard, don't it.

[packsaddle]

Gern, I admit that outside of this thread, I mostly ignore PETA as so far out on the distribution as not to be important. As I understand it PETA is not the prime mover for laws regarding such things as cockfighting. Those laws get general support from the public as well as more-reasonable special interest groups such as the ASPCA.

For me the problem comes when people and PETA members seem to lose the distinction between humans and other animals. For example, a few of my acquaintances who are members of PETA have admitted to me that given the choice, they'd run over a person, even a child, rather than a dog. I consider that view to be obscene and I inform them of my intent to testify against them if it ever should come to that. Many of their other ideas are similarly extreme. And yes, they get a healthy dose of ridicule as a result. But I ridicule the ideas not the person, and they try to ridicule my ideas (sometimes with surprising ability) and when they make their point I do think about it. The conflict for me is based in what I consider PETA's disconnect from biological facts and the realities of life. Fish are not kittens. Completely different phyla. Their behaviors are not human. If we tend to apply anthropomorphisms, that is our problem.

 

On religion: If a Catholic wants to believe that that little piece of cracker actually becomes human flesh when he eats it during a sacrament, I think it's weird but it seems harmless and it's OK with me for him to believe it. If he somehow tries to impose that belief on some part of my life, I will ridicule the hell out of it, pun intended.

PETA does try to impose their views on my life and they'll have to take the heat as a result.

 

But your point is well-taken about the boys. If the boys are using this kind of talk in a destructive manner, then I try to turn it to a constructive discussion. Ridicule can be used constructively but it has to involve an honest interest in engaging the ideas rather than attacking a person. I don't mind the boys questioning ideas, even poking fun at them if: 1) they maintain a sense of humor; 2)they are prepared to take the return heat, sometimes from me; 3) they are seriously trying to investigate the ideas, and; 4) if they don't get angry during the give-and-take. But I do NOT want them to ridicule a person, simply because they disagree with an idea. That is the distinction I would make.

 

[Gunny2862]

pack, I agree

especially with the part regarding are they actually discussing the idea or is the intent to simply "dis" the other Scout.

[OldGreyEagle]

Pack, to be accurate the bread becomes the flesh of Jesus at the Consecration when the priest says "This is my Body" and the wine his blood when he says "This is my blood".

 

In Latin the phrase "This is my Body" is "Hoc Est Enim Corpus Meum". During the Prostestant reformation this phrase was mocked and became the origination of the taunt, "You don't beleive in all that "Hocus Pocus" do you?

 

 

[packsaddle]

OGE, thanks for the clarification. But that is absolutely fascinating, the origin of the taunt! Or are you just messin' with me? I hope not because I think that's incredibly interesting. Thanks.

 

Also, I need to correct an error I made in my previous post: fish and cats are in the same phylum, different classes. Or in the case of fish, 'schools'. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[OldGreyEagle]

pack, have I ever lied to you before? At least as far as you know? Anyway, I googled the phrase "Hocus Pocus" and some references seem to support my story and others don't.

 

I choose to believe it, you don't have to but even if we hold differing beliefs, we can still be friends in the Brotherhood of Scouting (quick Ed, cue the Kum Ba Yah Chorus)

[ASM915]

Gern,

I typed out a post last night, lost it, but it was to late to retype.

Now Ed, Pack, and OGE have beat me to the punch.

 

I must have missed where PETA applied for status as a religious entity. I don't remember PETA and religion being tied together, or us making fun of religion earlier in this post. Maybe it's the Midheimers setting in. We could always change the name of PETA to the "Preposterously Extreme Theological Association". At least we wouldn't have to worry about animal sacrifices, except for us Homo Sapiens if Pack's friends are around.

 

I didn't notice any real malicious overboard ridicule like "through the PETA people in with the lovely tigers and lions and see how they all get along." Now that would have been malicious and possibly taken as a threat.

 

Now I'm going to look into some of the Bush and Obama bashing threads on the forum, and see if you have posted simular feeling in those posts.

 

Gern, by the way, I hear the Governor of New York is looking for someone to add to his administration. the job classification is to go after the comedy shows on the tele, especially SNL, after their little jab at him. Might be a good job for you. (smiley face).

 

By the way, did you all hear, it's sooooo coooold in the midwest, that the bubmles bees are wearing yellow jackets?

 

Oh no!!! Pack!!! Help!!!Here comes a couple of cars with South Carolina plates on them. Oh yeah, I''l be safe. I forgot they don't know how to drive on snow, and just maybe, they will freeze before they manage to reach me.

 

Everyone stay warm this weekend. Lucky for us, we have Klondike this weekend. Oh Boy! I bet the scouts will be doing impressions of Klondike Bars before it's over.

[packsaddle]

Heh, Heh, ASM915, My sympathies with regard to the inability of Southerners to drive on snow. Around here we cringe when we're driving in the mountains and get stuck behind someone with Florida plates, snailing their way around mountain curves and no way to pass. A lot of locals refer to them as FFPs. "xxxxxxx" Florida People. But they go away when the frost hits, kinda like Kudzu.