Boy Scouts vs. Philadelphia

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

"Be careful what you wish for" should have been applied to the BSA some years back, particularly when public schools were their largest chartering partner and their numerous governmental perks were apparently forgotten in their rush to become a private, discriminatory, religious organization.

[vol_scouter]

Merlyn,

 

I did not know about the ability for either party to end the relationship unilaterally with a year's notice. If there are no other requirements to complicate the issue, then Philadelphia can terminate the relationship and has done nothing wrong. Do you happen to have a link to the agreement? I usually do not agree with you on these subjects but it sounds like the Cradle of Liberty Council must accept the decision. Some of us may not like the decision but it is not right to only enforce certain parts of a contract.

 

[evmori]

Well, Merlyn, the BSA has always had the same membership requirements. One day the City of Cheese Steak decided they should of actually read the BSA membership requirement then when they did they found out they didn't like those membership requirements & proceeded to start termination of the BSA lease. I sure hope the City of Cheese Steak realizes they made a mistake when all those kids on the street have nothing to do. I seriously doubt if the City of Cheese Steak, providing they prevail, will pick up the youth programs the BSA supplied.

[SMT224]

Rarely do governments take action on an issue unless publicly or legally pushed. They already have way too much to do with far too few resources to dive into such things with out cause.

 

Merlyn, do you know for an absolute fact that the sole reason the City of Philadelphia terminated the lease with BSA was the Dale decision with out any outside stimulus? In other words, did it simply come up as a matter of normal city business? Or was there an entity outside the city that advocated, either by a legal challenge or a publicity campaign, that the city take action on the building?

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Here's the resolution ending the agreement; I've never found a copy of the 1928 ordinance itself, but this cites it and the reason for ending it:

http://webapps.phila.gov/council/attachments/3811.pdf

[Eagle92]

While the document cited does indeed state that the city could end the agreement by giving one year's notice, a copy of the actuall agreement is not provided. As a former history teacher, I've seen students take quotes and examples out of context, suiting it to their purpose. If I didn't knwo some of the history and documents as well as I did, i would have believed their argument.

 

Since the original document is a public record, it should be available for anyone to see.

[vol_scouter]

If on peruses the BSA Legal issues website and reads the Cradle of Liberty council's lawsuit, the issue seems to be that Philadelphia is not enforcing the law uniformly. Other discriminatory organizations have similar agreements. A government is obligated to uniformly enforce a law. That seems to tbe the crux of the issue. The BSA was singled out because of Dale.

[skeptic]

Here is material from the city's website regarding this. The actual termination decision in 2006 seems to not be available anywhere, which seems odd to me. Also, the final approval of the resolution is pretty sloppy if the minutes are to be noted. I also found it sad that while perusing minutes for the month of May in 2007, I could not help but notice how many comments and concerns about out of control youth were there.

 

11-16-06

Transmitting a resolution approving the termination of the arrangement with the

Philadelphia Coucil of the Boy Scouts, or its successor, the Cradle of Liberty

Council of the Boy Scouts, whereby the Boy Scouts Council occupies a City

building located at 22nd and Spring Streets. (File No. 060877)

 

 

 

1 5/31/07 STATED - INTRO. OF BILLS, RESOLUTIONS

2 of the first resolution.

3 CHIEF CLERK: A resolution

4 approving the termination of the

5 arrangement with the Philadelphia

6 Council of the Boy Scouts or its

7 successor, the Cradle of Liberty

8 Council of the Boy Scouts, whereby the

9 Boy Scouts Council occupies a city

10 building located at 22nd and Spring

11 Streets.

12 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA: The

13 Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

14 COUNCILMAN CLARKE: I was

15 going to move for the adoption, but I

16 think Councilman O'Neill wants to --

17 COUNCILMAN KENNEY: Madam

18 President?

19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA: Yes?

20 COUNCILMAN KENNEY: I'm not

21 sure what it does. Would you read the

22 resolution?

23 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA: I'm

24 sorry. Was the resolution circulated;

25 do we know?

58

2 COUNCILMAN CLARKE: No, it

3 hasn't been circulated. It's an

4 approval of a lease, which

5 traditionally is not circulated, but I

6 don't have a problem with --

7 COUNCILMAN KENNEY: I'm sorry.

8 The question is: Can we approve a

9 lease with a resolution?

10 COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Yes, yes.

11 COUNCILMAN KENNEY: Okay.

12 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:

13 Could you please --

14 COUNCILMAN CLARKE: It's

15 approving the termination of a lease.

16 COUNCILMAN KENNEY: Oh, the

17 termination. I'm sorry. Never mind.

18 COUNCILMAN CLARKE:

19 Unfortunately.

20 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA: Do

21 you still want it read?

22 COUNCILMAN KENNEY: No.

23 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA: Okay.

24 The Chair recognizes

25 Councilman Clarke for a motion on the

59

1 5/31/07 STATED - INTRO. OF BILLS, RESOLUTIONS

2 resolution.

3 COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Madam

4 President, I move for the adoption of

5 the resolution.

6 (Motion seconded.)

7 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA: It

8 has been moved and properly seconded

9 that the resolution be adopted.

10 All those in favor will

11 signify by saying aye.

12 Those opposed?

13 COUNCILMAN O'NEILL: No.

14 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:

15 Okay. The record will reflect that

16 Councilman O'Neill voted in the

17 negative, and all other members voted

18 in the affirmative; therefore, the

19 resolution is adopted.5/31/07 STATED - INTRO. OF BILLS, RESOLUTIONS

 

(Resolution No. 070522)

RESOLUTION

Approving termination of the arrangement with the Philadelphia Council of the Boy

Scouts, or its successor, the Cradle of Liberty Council of the Boy Scouts, whereby the

Boy Scouts Council occupies a City building located at 22nd and Spring Streets.

WHEREAS, In 1928 the City of Philadelphia gave the Philadelphia Council of

the Boy Scouts (now known as the Cradle of Liberty Council of the Boy Scouts, and

referred to here as the Boy Scouts) permission to build, at its own expense, a building

located on City land located at 22nd and Spring Streets; and

WHEREAS, As reflected in the grant of permission, set forth in an ordinance of

Council approved December 14, 1928, the building was to become at once the property

of the City; and

WHEREAS, The Boy Scouts, pursuant to that grant of permission, built a

building at that location, which it currently used as a regional headquarters; and

WHEREAS, The national Boy Scouts organization has a policy of discrimination

based on sexual orientation with respect to its members and scoutmasters and has

required the local Boy Scouts to implement its discriminatory policy by excluding

participation on the basis of sexual orientation; and

WHEREAS, The local Boy Scouts unfortunately has implemented that

discriminatory policy and publicly has declared its intention to continue doing so; and

WHEREAS, The non-discrimination provisions of the Citys Home Rule Charter

and the Citys Fair Practices Ordinance reflect broad City policy abhorring discrimination

and the Boy Scouts policy and conduct is directly contrary to the principles of equal

access and opportunity enshrined in Philadelphia law; and

WHEREAS, Pursuant to this policy, the City seeks to ensure that the benefits of

City subsidies are made available to all citizens on a non-discriminatory basis; and

WHEREAS, The Citys ongoing subsidy of a discriminatory organization through

the allowance of free use of a building is directly contrary to the Citys policy and

practice of refusing to support discrimination, and of ensuring non-discriminatory access

to City benefits; and

WHEREAS, Pursuant to the terms of the permission granted to the Boy Scouts,

the building and property is to be surrendered to the City within one year after notice of a

desire to terminate given by the Commissioners of Fairmount Park, with the approval of

the Mayor and City Council; and

WHEREAS, The Fairmount Park Commission and the Mayor, through the City

Solicitor, have provided notice of ejectment from the property to the Boy Scouts on July

20, 2006, subject to withdrawal upon agreement by the Boy Scouts to pay fair market

rent; and

WHEREAS, The Fairmount Park Commission has approved at its meeting on

July 24, 2006 the July 20, 2006, notice and has approved termination of the arrangement

with the Boy Scouts, subject to withdrawal upon agreement by the Boy Scouts to pay fair

market rent or the Boy Scouts ending its discriminatory policy and practice; and

WHEREAS, The Boy Scouts have failed to respond to the City regarding the July

20, 2006 letter; now therefore

RESOLVED, BY THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, That

termination of the arrangement with the Boy Scouts, whereby the Boy Scouts occupy

City land and a City building located at 22nd and Spring Streets, is hereby approved,

subject to withdrawal upon agreement by the Boy Scouts to pay fair market rent or the

Boy Scouts ending its discriminatory policy and practice.

 

 

 

Introduced October 25, 2007

Councilmembers Kelly, O'Neill,

Ramos and Krajewski

RESOLUTION

Calling upon The City of Philadelphia and Fairmount Park Commission to allow the Boy

Scouts to remain in the facility located at 22nd & Spring Streets until they obtain a

suitable new location, and urging them to compensate the Boy Scouts in full, for any and

all improvements which they have made to the facility throughout the term of their lease.

WHEREAS, In 1928, the City of Philadelphia gave the Philadelphia Council of

the Boy Scouts (now known as the Cradle of Liberty Council of the Boy Scouts, and

referred to here as the Boy Scouts) permission to build, at its own expense, a building

located on City land located at 22nd and Spring Streets; and

WHEREAS, As reflected in the grant of permission, set forth in an ordinance of

Council approved December 14, 1928, the building was to become at once the property

of the City; and

WHEREAS, Pursuant to the terms of the permission granted to the Boy Scouts,

the building and property is to be surrendered to the City within one year after notice of a

desire to terminate given by the Commissioners of Fairmount Park, with the approval of

the Mayor and City Council; and

WHEREAS, The Fairmount Park Commission and the Mayor, through the City

Solicitor, provided notice of eviction from the property to the Boy Scouts on July 20,

2006, subject to withdrawal upon agreement by the Boy Scouts to pay fair market rent;

and

WHEREAS, The Boy Scouts notice of eviction was inopportune, and does not

allow the Boy Scouts adequate time to search for a suitable new facility; and

WHEREAS, Over the course of their lease, the Boy Scouts have paid for

numerous improvements to the facility located at 22nd and Spring Streets which is a city

owned facility and thus, the City of Philadelphia should compensate them for the

improvements; and

 

WHEREAS, The Boy Scouts have provided countless community services to The

City of Philadelphia and have offered innumerable programs for hundreds of thousands

of children since 1928, all at no cost to the City; now therefore

RESOLVED, BY THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, That it

hereby Calls upon The City of Philadelphia and Fairmount Park Commission to allow the

Boy Scouts to remain in the facility located at 22nd & Spring Streets until they obtain a

suitable new location, and urges them to compensate the Boy Scouts in full, for any and

all improvements which they have made to the facility throughout the term of their lease.

 

 

[evmori]

If the City of Cheese Steak was waiting for a ruling on the Dale case to do anything, why did the City of Cheese Steak wait an additional 6 years to actually do anything?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, I went through this just a few messages back when I said those of us who were paying attention knew this became an issue after the Dale case. I guess you weren't paying attention. The C of L council first said they wouldn't discriminate, then the BSA made them take it back, then the C of L council came out with a fake nondiscrimination policy, then the city asked for clarification on what they meant by "illegal discrimination", and the C of L never answered. That's what took years.

[Mr. Boyce]

It's sad the homosexual cause is popular just right now. Homosexual organizations of various ilk get public support in many different ways, and I hate to see my tax dollar supporting this immoral behavior. I don't see any public benefit.

[Trevorum]

"right now"? Sorta like civil rights was a "popular" cause in the 1960s? Back then, the segregationists would have laughed in your face if you had predicted a black man would ever be elected Pesident.

 

I've said it before: BSA is on the wrong side of history on this issue.

[Eamonn]

I'm far too lazy to bother looking up the last time this was brought up.

While of course anyone who wants to can chime in.

Still it does seem that we have been there, covered that and nothing has changed.

Like it or not, the BSA does discriminate!

As things are right now, I don't see the BSA rushing to change. I do think that maybe one day they (We )will.

Many other Scout organizations /Associations have made changes. While of course the BSA doesn't have to follow. From what I have seen these changes have not changed very much in the places that have changed.

Having said that. I have a very dear and close Scouting friend in the UK, who belongs to the LDS Church. He isn't very happy with the openly gay District Commissioner. My pal is moving to Utah, so I kinda think that he'll get over it.

I have never felt very comfortable being where I'm not welcome. If the laws are saying that the BSA is not welcome. That is that!

I like to think that maybe the good volunteers in Philly are doing what they can for the youth that live there. Lord knows that Philly seems to have more that its fair share of problems.

Eamonn.

[NJCubScouter]

Eamonn says:

 

I have never felt very comfortable being where I'm not welcome. If the laws are saying that the BSA is not welcome. That is that!

 

That may be that for you, but not for the BSA. Their attitude seems to be that they are going to litigate this until the end of time, if not longer. And, as I have said, the BSA has crossed the line from imposing their membership policies internally to try to force their acceptance by others.

[evmori]

All that waiting didn't take 6 years Merlyn! This was a politically move by the City of Cheese Steak!