Voting with our pocketbooks.

[TheScout]

I think there is a misunderstanding of the two major wings of the conservative movement: Paleoconservatism and Neoconservatism.

 

The current Republican party is and has been for a good deal of time been dominated by Neoconservatives. They are much more inclined to use the power of government to support "conservative" ideals than the Paleoconservatives who are the traditional small government more liberetarian-leaning types.

 

The difference can be best pictured when looking at George Bush who is essentially the perfect neocon and a Ron Paul who would be the best current example of a paleocon.

 

Paleoconservatism, which really isn't a strong force it modern politics is the small governemnt version - and everyone harps on why the Republican party has become one of big government - because for a while they haven't paid more than lip service to tradtional conservatism.

[packsaddle]

Ed, as long as the parasites are dead I'll be good with that steak.

John-in-KC, OK, I'll consider it. By the way, if you can truly get people of any party to line up behind truly conservative ideas, I'll reconsider whatever party that group wants to call itself.

Also, if that happens I'm also willing to reconsider the concept of 'miracle'.

[Gold Winger]

"The level of bitterness regarding Obama's victory continues to astound me. "

 

Unlike the bitterness and vitriol that accompanied Gore's loss to Bush?

[Beavah]

Socialism is when the Government decides how I will donate my money, and I will fight that to the death.

 

Yah, yeh better get a refund from those very good schools, eh?

 

Socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned by the community as a whole. Like how we all, through the government, own Amtrak, AIG, a large portion of da financial industry, and pretty soon a few inept and bankrupt automobile manufacturers.

 

What scoutldr is describing I think is called "taxation", eh? That's where the government decides to take some of our money and use it to establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for da common defense, and promote the general welfare. It ain't socialism. Now, I reckon folks have never liked taxation much, they'd rather other people defended 'em for free, and provided roads for free, and all that. You know, kinda like bein' a feudal despot. But ordinary taxation is what I reckon most of us teach Scouts goin' for First Class is part of their responsibilities as a citizen.

 

Of course, we do have a mostly socialized education system, which is perhaps why it underperforms so much, includin' failin' to teach people what "socialism" is.

 

Speakin' of definitions, I've never been called a "paleo" anything before, The Scout! Yah, well, maybe when da scouts call me paleolithic. I don't reckon us real conservatives are quite as nutty as Ron Paul, but I get your drift. We certainly aren't in favor of what Bush became in the end.

 

B

 

[GernBlansten]

75015

Zip code of the national headquarters of a famous youth organization.

Voted 57% Obama, 41% McCain.

 

Should we boycott that organization?

(This message has been edited by gernblansten)

[scoutldr]

"Socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned by the community as a whole. Like how we all, through the government, own Amtrak, AIG, a large portion of da financial industry, and pretty soon a few inept and bankrupt automobile manufacturers."

 

Yeah, that's it, and I'm a'gin it, no matter who does it. What I am is Libertarian...citizens (including stockholders) should succeed or fail on their own merits and abilities. Taxation is a necessary evil, but should be used only to support common infrastructure such as roads, police and fire. I believe that's what "general welfare" means. It should NOT go to support those won't work, or who can't figure out how to keep from getting pregnant, or for those who think they can afford a $500,000 home on a 30,000 salary.

 

Ed, your state is now Blue, but you're in that racist, redneck backwards western end, so you probably didn't notice.

 

The problem with the stimulus checks is that I didn't ask for it, didn't need it and don't want it. It didn't "stimulate" me in the least. In fact, it's still in the bank...I may need to give it back when I file my tax return this year.

[Gold Winger]

"The problem with the stimulus checks is that I didn't ask for it, didn't need it and don't want it"

 

Send it to me, I'll take it and put it to good use.

[gwd-scouter]

"Unlike the bitterness and vitriol that accompanied Gore's loss to Bush?"

 

My memory is not what it used to be, but I do remember the anger by many Democrats who felt the election was stolen by the Republicans. I do NOT remember President Bush being treated to the kind of personal attacks that continue, or have gotten worse, against Obama.

 

Using the Muslim thing as an example: just how many more years will Obama have to sit in a Christian Church before the fear-mongering religious bigots believe he is not a Muslim? What an amazing hoax the man has perpetrated on the American people. OK, a good many of the folks would argue that his former Church is not a REAL Christian Church and his former pastor is an American hating racist. Whatever. It's still a Christian Church.

 

He's a smart guy, but I think it's giving him more credit than he's due to think that he has hidden his Muslim faith all these years. He even went so far as to be married in a Christian Church and have his two girls baptized in the same. Now that is some serious long-term dedication to hiding the truth.

 

Sheesh.

 

[Gold Winger]

" I do NOT remember President Bush being treated to the kind of personal attacks that continue, or have gotten worse, against Obama."

 

You never watched Bill Maher, Michael Moore or Chris Rock on the talk show circuit, did you?

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

I don't think Bill Maher, Michael Moore, or Chris Rock represent the views of the majority of American any more than I believe Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, or Sean Hannity do.

 

Your views may vary, of course.

 

Oops, edited for spelling.(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[perdidochas]

My memory is not what it used to be, but I do remember the anger by many Democrats who felt the election was stolen by the Republicans. I do NOT remember President Bush being treated to the kind of personal attacks that continue, or have gotten worse, against Obama.

 

I think it's a matter of personal perspective. I personally think that the rage against Obama is pretty much over. The rage against Bush still exists and never ended, IMHO. (then again, I am a conservative).

[packsaddle]

perdidochas, I sort of agree with you...I'm just not sure any of these comparisons are valid. Every election is different. But with regard to Bush, you're correct that there was initial revulsion by many people regarding the way he got the office in 2000. However, the revulsion you are observing late in his term is a different kind, and includes many true conservatives who are recoiling from his monumental blunders and destructive policies.

While I suspect that those who reviled him early on never stopped, the late 'surge' is more deserved seeing as how it results from his actions while in office.

[perdidochas]

Packsaddle,

 

From my viewpoint, the only time the GW Bush bashing stopped was for a few months after 9/11/01. Other than that it was continuous.

 

I've heard conservatives joke that as a minority party, we should be as welcoming of Obama, as the democrats were of Bush...... If so, it's going to be a tough couple of years....

[Gold Winger]

"I don't think Bill Maher, Michael Moore, or Chris Rock represent the views of the majority of American any more than I believe Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, or Sean Hannity do."

 

Maybe not but the first group are on the late night talk shows and get parrotted by the young crowd on a regular basis. Sadly most of the young people have less of a clue than I do. I recall one young woman (dean's list in education) who worked in Washington DC for a summer who blamed Bush for the traffic jams because he was going to Camp David. I pointed out that he took a helicopter from the White House straight to Camp David to avoid tying up traffic and her response was "that's just stupid."

 

 

[Lisabob]

It is something of an occupational hazard I suppose, but I spend a great deal of time talking politics with young people.

 

Perhaps you'll be happy to know that most of them see right through the lame-brained "analysis" offered up by all of the figures named in your post, GW. And in fact if we want to talk about parroting, it is far more likely these days that a typical college-aged kid will parrot John Stewart or Stephen Colbert than Michael Moore or Anne Coulter or any of those others. Whether that's an improvement is, of course, a matter open for debate. And it doesn't always mean they understand the reality behind Stewart's or Colbert's comedy either, but more often than you might expect.

 

The 2008 election marks the first time in a really long time that people aged 18-29 made up a larger percentage of actual voter turnout than people over age 60. Uh oh, we'd better hope those kids know what they're talking about!(This message has been edited by lisabob)