The whole Mormon thing - prop 8 in CA

[ScoutMomSD]

So I am starting this thread for 2 reasons - first I dont get the integration of the mormon church into scouting and second as one of them knocked on my door and practically assaulted me about voting for Prop 8 in California (the we hate gays prop).

 

I have to say I am pretty uncomfortable going to Roundtables at Mormon churches or whatever they are. I used to work with a heatlthcare group which had a hospital in Salt Lake and my brother in law lives in Park City. I have known and worked with a number of LDS. But how are they so enmeshed in scouting? and why?

 

Re: the prop 8 issue - the LDS church in SLC is pouring millions into the yes on prop 8 initiative and the whole thing just makes me queasy and uncomfortable.

 

Yes I am a liberal and Obama supporter as well as a No on 8 supporter. And a proud Cub Scout mom.

 

Again I am just uncomfortable with it - I can deal with the God/Scout link as it goes with the start of our country but this is not exactly a main stream religion. Plus when we were selling popcorn, I had my 13 yr old with me (who looks 16 plus) and I left to go to the restroom and while she and my son were there she was practically accosted by 2 Mormon boys (on their mission? forget what its called) and they asked for her phone number AND email and were trying to convince her to go to church. Gee I know there arent women on their "quest" but do they have to hit on 13 year old girls?

 

Sorry again, I am probably going where no PC scout has gone before, but I am just curious.

 

 

[ScouterRob]

I am a member of the LDS church and the church does not endorse any pushing of political affair. The church is on moderate. The church does not support Gay Marriages but we do not persecute choices. So who ever was pushing it to you was wrong.

 

About the scouting, the church was one of the first to endorse the program about 2 years after scouting was founded(1912). It does has a wonderful program, but integration is still an issue and I am having the same issues at times.. I am working with the church on my side to help the issues.

 

Sorry about the problems.

[scoutldr]

I fear Socialism more than Mormonism.

[Gold Winger]

It's pretty simple, the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints has chosen to adopt Boy Scouting as it's primary youth program for boys. Much like it is supposed to be for any charter organization. Because of the sheer size of the LDS in Scouting, BSA has allowed the church to make a few minor adjustments to the program as it relates to age.

 

"I can deal with the God/Scout link as it goes with the start of our country "

 

God/Scout, start of country? Don't get that. BSA wasn't around in 1776.

 

Mainstream? What is mainstream? Hindus? According the census bureau there are more mormons than unitarians or bhuddists, Christian Scientists or even my church, Orthodox. As Christians go, in numbers Mormons come right after Episcopalians. Orthodoxy is pretty mainstream as are Episcoplaians.

 

As for your daughter, you claim that she looks 16. The missionaries are 18, so a 16 year old would be in their normal range for chatting. What's the job of a missionary? To spread the word and that's what they were trying to do. Did they attempt to get her to do drugs? Have sex? I'm sure that many of her friends are pushing for both of those so who would she be better of with?

 

No, I'm not a Mormon but I've never had a problem with mormons.

[Eamonn]

I'm not a member of the LDS Church.

I have to admit to not really knowing very much about the way they do things.

I did have a boss who was married to a fellow who was a Bishop in the LDS Church. She was /is a really nice person. I was invited to attend the Eagle Scout COH for their son which was held in their church.

I was really impressed with what I seen to be a wonderful feeling of family and family love.

 

At times it does seem to me that many BSA members of the do want to look down on LDS units. I'm not sure why?

I would think that we should relish in the fact that a religion thought so highly of our value based program that they were happy to embrace it and use it.

 

Mixing politics and peoples personal beliefs can be a dangerous path.

Just this morning I was talking with a co-worker of HWMBO. She was going on about all the phone calls, political junk mail that she had received. She went on to say that she was upset that she was forced to belong to a union that she didn't want to belong to and that this union had the audacity to tell her who to vote for.

Some years back I went to mass in a small village church in Ireland. The Priest saying the mass was about 80 years old.

At the time Ireland was having a referendum on abortion. This old fellow was getting himself worked up into a real state as he talked about this in his sermon. HWMBO was with me. She is not a Roman Catholic, when we got out of the church she said that he had no business getting so upset and that the church shouldn't be telling people how to vote.

She of course is welcome to have her own opinion. But the church does see abortion as being wrong and as such telling people who belong to the church where the church stands on this is to my mind not out of line.

Many of us do get upset when outsiders invade our space. Be it the phone call at supper time from one of the political candidates, the Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on our door with copies of the Watchtower in hand. Or the guy who has broken down and wants to use the phone.

How each of us deals with each situation is up to each of us.

I'm happy most of the time to not get upset.

In fact a lot of the time I'm impressed that some people do take what they believe in so much to heart and are willing to work at it.

So what if they disturb my watching Law and Order? I know it's going to be on at least ten more times.

I wish when it came to recruiting more youth members Scouter's had the same commitment!

Eamonn.

[Chug]

I take it from this thread that BSA groups aren't sponsored by a local church/Synagogue/Mosque like they usually are here?

[SSScout]

Welcome to the colonies, chug. Scout units in the US of A can be sponsored by almost any non-profit entity. I have known units chartered to volunteer fire companies, school ptas (not so much now), private schools, service clubs (Kiwanis, Lions, American Legion), hospitals, and religious groups (churches and synagogues and mosques). All to varying degree of success and loyalty. We have real "hands on" charter partners who want to be in the thick of Scoutings issues and programs (LDS) and "hands off" partners (go forth and Scout, why do I need to do anything?). It depends in large part on the attitudes of both the Scout unit leadership and the sponsoring entity. Stand off or jump in.

 

As GW says, the LDS use the BSA program for their male youth program. And it, again, depends on the attitude of the local leadership. And the male youth can view it as a neat, fun thing to pursue or it can be something ya have to do 'cause the adults say I gotta. Their numbers are many because every young male is automatically enrolled. Comes with the family membership in the church. Youth females, when of age, become Venturererers, but it is a mono-ed program, not co-ed, in my experience with the local Stakes.

 

So howbout that Manchester Union, eh? eh?

[Lisabob]

THe LDS church is not a major player in scouting in our area, but the local churches do charter scouting units. A couple of years ago we moved our roundtable to a more central location in our district, and we ended up being housed at an LDS church. They've been nothing other than welcoming and have done absolutely nothing to push any sort of religious or political beliefs on folks. One positive aspect of this is that leaders of several LDS packs and troops are more frequent participants in RTs and indeed, serve on the RT staff. They're lovely people who are clearly dedicated to scouting. They are (mostly) quite happy to interact with other scouters and other units to do joint activities, schedule permitting. I've noticed as well that the LDS troop I have gotten to know uses the patrol method, the adult association method, and teaches "scout skills" more effectively than a lot of non-LDS troops in our area do. It has also been quite interesting, talking with them about the way that their church uses the scouting program as part of its youth program. The age-based distinctions among different scout groups actually make a lot of sense sometimes, as I think about the number of non-LDS troops who struggle to keep a population of 10-17 year all happy at the same time, failing as often as they succeed at one (or both) ends of that spectrum.

 

I don't know what the LDS church's stance on Prop 8 in CA is, although it wouldn't surprise me to learn that conservative religious groups of many stripes oppose gay marriage. But I don't see how this ties in with scouting. You don't have to join their religion or even like it, to be a scout(er), and a friend to others. Don't let a couple of interactions with a couple of individuals color your view of a whole group.

 

(And no, I'm not in the LDS church)

 

 

[scoutldr]

We had RT at an LDS church for years. The only difference I noted was we were not allowed to serve coffee. :-(

[ScoutMomSD]

first let me clarify - I have know some LDS folks who were fabulous. I had a friend in Junior high, worked with someone who was LDS who was a fellow CFO at a rehab hospital in SLC area and many are really really great folks.

 

But like with far left liberals, born agains, etc. there are the folks with agendas. And I see a "yes on 8" border on this site, which just makes me very very very sad. Why is "scouter.com" involved in ANY side? And the person who knocked on my door was telling me "I am just reminding you to vote" and giving me a door hanger with some "suggestions" - of course at the bottom of the flyer was a HUGE ad for yes on 8. So I said "I am against 8 so I dont want to talk to you" - he left and put an LDS flyer on my door. THAT is what I have a problem with.

 

My mom and dad were VERY religious people. I was raised in a "fringe" church, Christian scientists who have a LOT In common with LDS in that they are considered "off" mainstream, have some nutty ideas (like the no alcohol, and in a strict form no caffeine) and if you do any research on religions BOTH are considered by mainstream religions (ie Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist) to be "cults". And there is a Christian Science religion patch. So I am not speaking from the "outside" but from experience "inside" a non main stream church.

 

HOWEVER I believe in separation of church and state (hate to say but my parents actually were on the John Birch mailing list if you know what that is)and they were registered republicans and I actually volunteered for the Gerald Ford campaign in High School.

 

BUT I dont want religious folks telling me who to vote for. I am FINE with discussing it among fellow church members, or on church property, but if I wanted to know about your religion I would go to your church.

 

Yes we get the union propaganda also and I am on the Planned Parenthood mailing list - they ALL have their suggestions but I, amazingly, actually "read stuff" and make my own decision on all. As I tell the folks in front of stores getting signatures, I dont sign anything - I have to read both sides and decide.

 

fyi - here is some info on prop 8:

link to the LA times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-ed-prop8-2-2008nov02,0,7071124.story

 

link to SD UT (a highly right leaning paper)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080918/news_lz1ed18top.html

 

more LA times blog:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/10/now-the-mormon.html

 

I have a problem with graying the line between church and politics.

 

And my issue with god and scouts is that I AGREE with this as the belief in God was a key cornerstone to the founding of our countries, but also remember the birth of our nation was due to religious TOLERANCE. NOT religious takeover.

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Most Mormon young men and women I have met are what I hope my son and daughter become. Courteous, respectful and outward looking. They are more responsible than most adults I know. A refreshing change from most of the ME/apple Generation. Yes, I don't like IPods or texting or cell phones for teens.

 

In our area you can see them going on their mountain bikes, always in shirt, tie, helmet and backpack and always in a pair. Out doing their volunteer work, fantastic.

 

Now I don't agree with everything they do.....but I like the way the style of child rearing and strong sense of family.

 

So is a single parent household better or worse???????????????? Worse in most if not all cases.

[scoutldr]

The ads on this page are driven by what we're discussing. Right now there's an ad at the top for "pictures and videos of 1000's of beautiful LDS Singles" and "Family Tree History". If we were talking about tents, there would be ads for tents and camping equipment. I can put up with that if it pays the bills for Terry, the owner of Scouter.com.

 

And I don't think the guys on bikes are doing "volunteer" work. They are on their year-long mandatory "mission" which is to knock on doors and convert people. I don't like talking to them or Jehovah's Witnesses...so I don't answer the door.

[SequoiaWDL]

"BUT I dont want religious folks telling me who to vote for. I am FINE with discussing it among fellow church members, or on church property, but if I wanted to know about your religion I would go to your church."

 

So, in other words, you believe in tolerance so long as all in attendance agree with you. Typical. It's amazing how much that line of thinking has in common with the religious folks you complain about.

[Lisabob]

You know you don't have to listen to them. But they have 1st amendment free speech rights too, and so they have every right to attempt to share their political views with all who will give them the time of day. In that vein they are no different than you are, since you have chosen to use this forum to express your own beliefs.

 

Side note - that pesky first amendment! Sarah Palin doesn't appear to be a big fan of it either! (Too bad she doesn't appear to understand it though...)

[Nike]

We all meet people who annoy us everyday. Ignore them.

 

Put the door hangar in the trash. Politely tell the missionaries you aren't interested, to have a nice day, and close the door. Tell the polster, campaigner, or whoever it is you don't have time or inclination and please don't call back.

 

There are better things to get wrapped around the axle about.