SF: MOUNTAIN VIEW DAD LOSES NAME DISPUTE WITH BOY SCOUTS

[evmori]

"His step-dad is his actual dad NOW!"

 

Sorry, Ed but a step-father is not an "actual father" unless he adopts the boy.

 

Good point GW, but in my opinion, the camp over-stepped the rules!

 

EVMORI - Respect is one of the life lessons taught by scouting (i.e., name calling). I urge you to take a refresher course in one of the many scout training programs to help you understand its meaning. If somehow you feel compelled not to, i would suggest that you re-direct your volunteer services to a different organization which fall more in line with your temperament and demeanor.

 

If you're talking about my using "morons", roy032564, was that inaccurate?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

[Chug]

"Chug from Great Britain writes:

 

"The problem is, if that organisation later folds under a heap of financial irregularities or child abuse allegations you can guarantee that some people will assume it is the BSA because of the use of the name Scout."

 

In that case the BSA should shut down all of the Scouting associations in Great Britain, especially since all three of them (even the conservative Christian group "The British Boy Scouts") violate the BSA's membership policies.

 

If the BSA's "trademark" on Scouting is legitimate, Chug, then you are in violation of our two countries' trademark treaties!"

 

Hmmm! Considering that Britain was the founding country, and that Scouting there predates the BSA by nearly 2yrs, makes this the daftest post I've read on these boards.

 

[Kudu]

Chug from Great Britain writes:

 

"Hmmm! Considering that Britain was the founding country, and that Scouting there predates the BSA by nearly 2yrs, makes this the daftest post I've read on these boards."

 

Well, that is the whole point, isn't it? Scouting in the United States also predates the BSA by nearly 2 years, and it predates the nanny state's Congressional Charter by nearly 18 years.

 

Using your logic, if a UK organization folds under a heap of financial irregularities or child abuse allegations you can guarantee that some people will assume it is the BSA because of the use of the name "Scout."

 

Plus, all UK Scouting associations (including the conservative Christian ones) allow gays and girls to join. By the BSA's definition of "Scouting" that is not "clean" or "morally straight." So if you are "Trustworthy" and honor the trademark treaties between our two great nations, you would be free to organize camping activities for your children as long as you don't call it "Scouting"!

 

Kudu

 

 

[IM_Kathy]

cookie price and profits do vary from council to council... so I can only speak of what my council does.

 

Our cookies are $3.50/box and the troop gets $.40 for each box which would be about 11 to 12%

 

but in saying that you may say, that's nothing compared to what a boy gets from popcorn sales.

 

But, our council also has camp credit seperate from this amount. I don't have my sheets from last year to recall the exact amount but as I recall my daughter sold 200 boxes and got something like $100 (like I said I can't recall totalling - ask me again in a few months when our sale starts again) that can be used for summer camp.

 

So if a girl does attend summer camp she does get same, if not more than my son gets from selling popcorn. Add in the fact that the cookies pretty much sell themselves, it is a great fundraiser for them.

[Chug]

Kudu writes: "Using your logic, if a UK organization folds under a heap of financial irregularities or child abuse allegations you can guarantee that some people will assume it is the BSA because of the use of the name "Scout."

 

Plus, all UK Scouting associations (including the conservative Christian ones) allow gays and girls to join. By the BSA's definition of "Scouting" that is not "clean" or "morally straight." So if you are "Trustworthy" and honor the trademark treaties between our two great nations, you would be free to organize camping activities for your children as long as you don't call it "Scouting"!"

 

If you are too much of a numpty to tell the difference between someone in the US setting up a youth organisation and calling it Scouts, and a sovereign countries Scout Association that's your problem. Of course I realise that you do know the difference and are just pursuing this line of argument to be awkward.

 

BSA's policy on gays aside, I find it very telling that you've just described girls as unclean an immoral.

[evmori]

BSA's policy on gays aside, I find it very telling that you've just described girls as unclean an immoral.

 

Girls are icky and have cooties but they aren't immoral

[Chug]

evmori said;"Girls are icky and have cooties but they aren't immoral"

 

If you're lucky they are.

[Kudu]

Chug from Great Britain writes:

 

"If you are too much of a numpty to tell the difference between someone in the US setting up a youth organisation and calling it Scouts, and a sovereign countries Scout Association that's your problem."

 

"Numpty"? Is that the UK equivalent to the Scout Law "Courteous"?

 

YOU are the one who supports a BSA trademark on "Scouts," not me. I am just helping you understand the implications of your position.

 

"Sovereign" has nothing to do with it, your country has a trademark treaty with ours so you would have to honor a BSA trademark on "Scouts" if it was legitimate, just as you are bound to honor the trademark on "Coca Cola."

 

Oh, by the way, as a supporter of the BSA's trademark on Scouting, be sure to inform the French that you support the BSA's claim to own the generic fleur-de-lis, as well!

 

Chug from Great Britain writes:

 

"BSA's policy on gays aside, I find it very telling that you've just described girls as unclean...."

 

The "unclean" accusation is not mine as you insist, it is part of the BSA monopoly on Scout Law that YOU support. Their authority comes from Leviticus, which also describes women as unclean (Lev.15:19- 24). I'm sure that you and the BSA agree that one can not pick and choose which of God's laws to obey.

 

Kudu

[Gold Winger]

What are the terms of this treaty? I did some searching and couldn't find a USA-UK trademark treaty but I did find much about international protection of trademarks and none of that seems to be automatic, you have to file seperate papers for international protection.

[eisely]

As GW comments, there is an international system for protection of trademarks known as the Madrid Protocol. There may also be bilateral treaties between the US and specific countries, just as we have bilateral tax treaties. You are still subject to local law, but filing with the World Intellectual Property Office (Organization?) eliminates the need to file in every single jurisdiction for those countries participating. Link to United States Patent and Trademark Office below:

 

http://www.wipo.int/madrid/en/index.html

[Chug]

GW Said: "What are the terms of this treaty? I did some searching and couldn't find a USA-UK trademark treaty but I did find much about international protection of trademarks and none of that seems to be automatic, you have to file seperate papers for international protection."

 

Good point, I wonder why Kudu hasn't responded yet?

 

 

[Kudu]

Chug writes:

 

"Good point, I wonder why Kudu hasn't responded yet?"

 

Eisely's reply should provide the BSA with some good leads for forcing Baden-Powell's Scout Association to cease and desist using the word "Scout" if the Supreme Court rules that they actually have a trademark on the word.

 

Nothing personal, Chug, as you say "The problem is, if that organisation later folds under a heap of financial irregularities or child abuse allegations you can guarantee that some people will assume it is the BSA because of the use of the name Scout."

 

Ask any American Wood Badger: Baden-Powell does not have anything to do with "modern" Scouting! Scouting in the 21st century is about business management hyped as "leadership!"

 

Think of your impending defeat as a opportunity! You can turn your brand of circular logic into a business: Any corporation can Chug generic words with the same argument:

 

Coca Cola can argue that if we continue to allow Pepsi and other companies to use the word "Cola," then when someone finds a dead mouse in a bottle of Cola, you can guarantee that some people will assume it is Coca Cola because of the use of the name "Cola."

 

McDonalds can argue that if we continue to allow other businesses to use the word "Burger," then when someone gets sick from an undercooked burger, you can guarantee that some people will assume it is McDonalds because of the use of the name "Burger."

 

Microsoft can argue that if we continue to allow other companies to use the word "Software," then when someone gets a computer virus, you can guarantee that some people will assume it is Microsoft because of the use of the name "SOFTware."

 

All it takes is to have the nanny state pick your corporation as the winner in your market!

 

Kudu

 

[Chug]

Kudu, your replies are becoming increasingly illogical. The word Scout when used in connection with a youth organisation is associated with groups that are members of WOSM, WAGGGS and WFIS. If you say to someone almost anywhere in the world that you're a Scout they will make an instant connection to the movement begun by BP, "cola", "burger" and "software" are generic terms.

[Kudu]

Chug writes:

 

"Kudu, your replies are becoming increasingly illogical."

 

This is called "projection," Chug. You are projecting your faulty logic on me.

 

Chug writes:

 

"The word Scout when used in connection with a youth organisation is associated with groups that are members of WOSM, WAGGGS and WFIS."

 

Who says? The British Boy Scouts (established in 1909) is a member of the Order of World Scouts (established in 1911). WOSM was not established until 11 years later. If membership in an international Scouting organization was required to be a Scout, then the boys in Baden-Powell's association could not be considered "Scouts" until 1922.

 

Chug writes:

 

"If you say to someone almost anywhere in the world that you're a Scout they will make an instant connection to the movement begun by BP, 'cola', 'burger' and 'software' are generic terms."

 

"Scout" is a generic (non-trademarked) term adopted for use in youth organizations in the book Scouting for Boys by Baden-Powell, just as "burger" is the generic (non-trademarked) term for ground beef shaped into a patty.

 

Baden-Powell did not trademark the term, and it was in common use in the United States before the BSA was invented.

 

Kudu

 

[frank10]

"Microsoft can argue that if we continue to allow other companies to use the word "Software," then when someone gets a computer virus, you can guarantee that some people will assume it is Microsoft because of the use of the name "SOFTware." "

 

Oh, his one is too easy. It would be like shooting fish in a small bucket.