SF: MOUNTAIN VIEW DAD LOSES NAME DISPUTE WITH BOY SCOUTS

[Kudu]

Youthscouts seeks to establish Scouting as defined by Baden-Powell.

 

Campfire is not Scouting.

 

Campfire lacks a Patrol System in which Patrol Leaders are trained to lead their Patrols on hikes and overnights without adults hovering nearby.

 

Likewise Campfire lacks training in Scoutcraft in which outdoor skills are tested at every rank with "Journeys:" A series of backwoods expeditions of increasingly difficulty designed to allow a Scout and a buddy to prove their level of Scouting unsupervised by one minute mangers.

 

If the Youthscout's appeal is successful it will open the door for competition in the marketplace by alternatives to nanny-state Scouting.

 

Kudu

[NJCubScouter]

I don't see the point in the BSA going after this guy. Nobody is going to get confused between Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts and "Youthscouts". They should have just left him and his little organization alone.

[Gold Winger]

The thing about trademarks is if you don't protect it, you lose it. BMW NA has sued or threatened to sue the BMW Car Club of America at least twice, maybe three times over trademark infringement.

[emb021]

"Youthscouts seeks to establish Scouting as defined by Baden-Powell."

 

Sorry, but reviewing his website give me any no impression that 'youthscouts' is based in anyway on BP's scouting. It struck me as just another generic co-ed youth program.

 

 

 

[eisely]

Whatever happened to the "spiral scouts" organized a few year's back? Did BSA go after them as well?

[Kudu]

"Youthscouts seeks to establish Scouting as defined by Baden-Powell."

 

emb021 writes:

 

"Sorry, but reviewing his website give me any no impression that 'youthscouts' is based in anyway on BP's scouting."

 

Greg Wrenn's mission is much wider than defending his own youth program. He has always been in contact with all of the groups who seek to establish alternative Scouting in the United States, including the two American Traditional Scouting associations that are based on Baden-Powell's program.

 

From his Website:

 

"The case is scheduled to go to trial on January 26, 2009. At stake is

nothing less than whether independent scouting, as intended by

Baden-Powell, and as it existed in the United States prior to 1924,

and as it still exists in other countries around the world, will be

permitted to exist in the United States again." See:

 

http://youthscouts.org/statement.html

 

eisely writes:

 

"Whatever happened to the "spiral scouts" organized a few year's back? Did BSA go after them as well?"

 

Yes, they got the same cease and desist letter as everyone else. You can find their statement on the Youthscouts Website.

 

Kudu

 

[NJCubScouter]

GW, I think the issue here is whether the BSA really has a valid trademark on "Scouts" (shared with the Girl Scouts) as opposed to "Boy Scouts", on which it obviously does have a valid trademark. Apparently that is now something the Court of Appeals will have to decide.

 

As for Spiral Scouts, I was wondering the same thing. They have existed for several years now and if the BSA was going to sue them (rather than just issue a cease and desist letter), I would think it would have happened by now. I guess we'll see. But I still have to wonder whether it is really in the BSA's best interest to try to protect a word like "Scout" against these tiny organizations, as long as they are not using terms like "Boy Scout", "Cub Scout", "Eagle Scout", etc.

[eisely]

One of the early major cases in trademark law involved Coca Cola. The courts decided that there was only one Coca Cola, but that there were generic cola drinks that could incorporate the word "cola" in their brands. Accordingly we have Pepsi Cola, Royal Crown Cola, and Coca Cola. I could see these disputes moving to some similar resolution.

[nolesrule]

As I pointed out in the previous thread on this topic, the BSA's congressional charter grants them a broader scope on trademarks than normal trademark law would allow (and the provision of the charter does not violate the Constitution which would be required to void that portion of the charter), so it's not the same as the Coca Cola example.

[evmori]

This whole thing seems like a big waste of money & resources to me. If the BSA is worried about Youthscouts or Spiral Scouts competing with them, why not put the money & effort into improving the BSA program & leave these two others in the dust! Seems to me that would be a better use of the BSA resources.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[nolesrule]

Trademarks are a defend it or lose it kinda thing. If you don't take it to court, you can kiss your traademark goodbye. It's not about spending money on lawyers. It's a business decision regarding your assets. You wouldn't let someone walk into your garage and take your car. Why would you let them take an intangible asset either?

[evmori]

Yeah I know that noserule but actually going after any youth organization using the word scout is seems absurd & that is the waste of money I am talking about! Talk about an insecurity complex!(This message has been edited by evmori)

[nolesrule]

"Yeah I know that noserule"

 

That's nolesrule (Noles Rule as in Florida State University Seminoles).

 

I guess if you've never run your own business and had a trademark infringed upon, it's more difficult to understand. I was fortunate that a simple conversation with an unaware trademark infringer was enough and I didn't have to get lawyers involved, but when you hold a trademark and someone infringes upon it, you cannot ignore it.

 

The reason "cola" on its own is not protected is that the cola flavor comes from the cola nut extract. All cola-flavored beverages can put cola in their name because of that. "Scouts" in the US of A has a specific meaning as well, which the BSA earned the rights to use exclusively (GSA excepted) through their congressional charter. When people think of the term "scouts" in terms of boys, they think of the BSA, so any youth organization coming along and calling themselves scouts creates confusion in the marketplace. After all, it would be reasonable for someone to assume that "YouthScouts" is a merger of the BSA and GSA, being that it uses the term scouts and is not gender specific.

[evmori]

Nope never had my own business. Oh and sorry for getting your handle wrong nolesrule.

 

To me, it's the same as the cola thing. Scout/scouts is a common word. And it seems the BSA is a little paranoid about any youth group scout/scouts in their name. Now, there is an organization named Business Service Associates that also uses BSA. Wonder why the Boy Scouts of America hasn't gone after Business Service Associates? Sounds like selective suing to me!

[Chug]

How does the BSA deal with the Baden-Powel Scouts?

 

http://www.na.wfis.org.mx/