SF: MOUNTAIN VIEW DAD LOSES NAME DISPUTE WITH BOY SCOUTS

[fgoodwin]

SF: MOUNTAIN VIEW DAD LOSES NAME DISPUTE WITH BOY SCOUTS

 

http://cbs5.com/localwire/22.0.html?type=bcn&item=SCOUTS-NAME-DISPUTE-baglm

 

Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:15

SAN FRANCISCO (BCN)

 

A Mountain View father lost a bid in federal court in San Francisco today to use the name "Youthscouts" for a youth activities group he founded for his daughter.

 

U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White ruled that the Boy Scouts of America has a trademark right to exclusive use of the word "scouts" in an organizational name.

 

White also said the Boy Scouts, founded in 1910, had additional protection from a special charter passed by Congress in 1916 giving the group rights over the word.

 

Gregory Wrenn, a Silicon Valley attorney, founded Youthscouts in 2002 after his daughter Emma was asked to stop attending meetings of her twin brother's Cub Scouts pack.

 

Youthscouts was intended to be nondiscriminatory and open to all members and staff regardless of gender, sexual orientation or religion.

 

Wrenn, who sued the Boy Scouts in 2003 after the organization initiated trademark enforcement proceedings, argued that the terms "scouts" and "scouting" were generic and should not be subject to trademark protection.

 

But White wrote in a 15-page ruling that the terms as used by the Boy Scouts "have achieved and been accorded significant conceptual and commercial strength." He said there was a likelihood of public confusion between the Boy Scouts and Youthscouts.

 

Wrenn and Boy Scouts of America were not immediately available for comment on the decision, which could be appealed.

 

In several other cases during the past decade, the U.S. Supreme Court and other courts have ruled that Boy Scouts of America is entitled to exclude girls, homosexuals and atheists because it is a private organization.

[Gold Winger]

I've never heard of a pack asking a sibling to stop coming to pack meetings. I wonder why they didn't want her there.

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[AlFansome]

 

You can read his full court filing at http://youthscouts.org/WrennvBSADistCourtComplaint.pdf

 

The relevant section is on page 2 and states:

 

"Plaintiff founded Youthscouts as an unincorporated non-profit organization in 2002 when his daughter was denied the right to become a member or even a "shadow" member of her twin brother's Cub Scout troop, operated by a local council chartered by the BSA. Plaintiff's daughter had tried membership in the local Girl Scouts of America organization but was not interested in its program or activities. Thus Plaintiff and his daughter decided to form a non-discriminatory scouting organization"

 

 

So, the real problem is with Girl Scouts not providing an interesting program, not with BSA. Maybe he should have sued them instead. :-)

 

His bio is at http://www.borland.com/us/company/leadership/management.html#Gregory_Wrenn

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

I didn't know that Borland still existed. A far cry from the days of Turbo Pascal and Turbo C and Phillipe Kahn toddling on the licorice stick.

[evmori]

Minor thread hijack - Borland had all kinds of financial troubles but made it through! They aren't as prevalent as they once were.

 

Hijack done!

 

How does the Girl Scouts get away with using the word Scouts? They are a youth organization!

[Gunny2862]

Ev or anyone else,

IDK, does Girl Scouts have a congressional charter also?

If so, when was it granted?

 

If it does then that would possibly explain their allowed use.

Also if their founding date was before the 1970's which I certainly believe but don't know that it was then they may have come into common usage early enough to have Girl Scouts recognized as their own commercially viable, and commonly used name that confusion and violation of trademark restrictions are avoided by it's early emergence as well as the differentiation of "Girl" Scouts.

[emb021]

"Plaintiff founded Youthscouts as an unincorporated non-profit organization in 2002 when his daughter was denied the right to become a member or even a "shadow" member of her twin brother's Cub Scout troop, operated by a local council chartered by the BSA."

 

Sorry, but his daughter has no such "right to become a member" of ANY organization.

 

 

[Bob White]

Girls Scouts were granted a federal charter in 1950.

[Gunny2862]

Bob White,

does that differ in any way from the type of charter Boy Scouts operates under?

[Nike]

So why didn't Dad get off his duff and help make a better Girl Scouting program for his daughter and other girls rather than tilt at windmills?

[skeptic]

Because he is a Lawyer and has fantasies of taking down the BSA.

[emb021]

"does that [Federal Charter of GSUSA] differ in any way from the type of charter Boy Scouts operates under?"

 

Don't know. You'd have to read and compare them.

 

Both charters give protection to the 2 orgs. The GSUSA has rights/permission to use 'scouts' and scouting for the girls program, BSA for the boys. While James West wasn't happy with the GSUSA calling themselves 'girl scouts' instead of 'girl guides' (he also viewed Camp Fire Girls as the BSA's equivalent for girls), he never went after them like he did with the various 'boy scout' groups.

 

"So why didn't Dad get off his duff and help make a better Girl Scouting program for his daughter and other girls rather than tilt at windmills?"

 

Gee, not much chance of making a big political statement then?

 

I would say that based on my limited, second-hand knowledge of how the GSUSA operates, this would be a bit daunting. The GSUSA seems to have a bit of an anti-male bias, and so it would probably be very difficult to do this, even at a local level.

 

Plus, there are some people out there that want to have a co-ed scouting program for younger kids just because its easier for the parents to have all their kids in the same program, vs different programs (GSUSA & BSA or anything else for that matter). They don't care about issues of different programs aimed at the particular needs/wants of different genders. They just want the convenience of one place to drop off their kids (kind of like daycare).

 

 

 

 

[Liz]

"Plus, there are some people out there that want to have a co-ed scouting program"

 

But there already is one. Hasn't this guy ever heard of Campfire USA?

 

-Liz

(Former Campfire "Bluebird")

[Kudu]

emb021 writes:

 

"While James West wasn't happy with the GSUSA calling themselves 'girl scouts' instead of 'girl guides'... he never went after them like he did with the various 'boy scout' groups."

 

Not true. James West did in fact attempt to force the GSUSA to use the name "Girl Guides" in 1924, claiming that their use of the name "Girl Scouts" inflicted psychological damage on boys.

 

The lawsuit in not mentioned in any Scouting history books, but a copy of the legal papers were offered on Ebay years ago. See The Inquiry Net:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/adult/bsa_vs_gsusa.htm

 

Kudu

 

[Gold Winger]

Sure he could have formed a Campfire group but there'd be no publicity value in that.