The Open-Minded, Tolerant Party

[CA_Scouter]

Ya. GWD... point taken.

 

I only think they are a 'raving lunatic' in the cases where they are, in fact, 'raving'. I have had many conversations with my extremely left leaning ASM ( he had the 'right' turn signal removed from his car ) and I value him as a good friend and confidante. He and I respectfully disagree on some issues but never argue. That's not always been the case with other liberal persons I've had discussions with... however that's just my experience.

 

I hate to generalize but everyone does it. uh.. ;-)

 

 

Now I'll agree with you as I think most talk show hosts are raving lunatics which is why I won't listen to them. I also think all news media is entertainment, which is why I dont' much listen to them not neither... ;-)

 

 

OK how about this one: disagree with a liberal, and its 'hate' speech.

 

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Whether its Hannity, Limbaugh or Beck, the only reason and I repeat, the only reason they are on the air is to make their Companies money. If no one listened to the great Rush, his voice would be silenced rather quickly, the same with any of the great voices of the American Public. Talk radio is about entertainment and giving people what they want to hear, its the only explanation for Michael Savage that I can come up with.

 

Right or Left Wing Talk shows is just that, a show, paid for by sponsors who want your money, like they could give a rip about how you think.

[Lisabob]

I'm a liberal. By no means would I ever agree that hate speech should be defined as anything with which I disagree.

 

There are zealots on all sides of the political spectrum, and all of them can be obnoxious to try to have a reasoned conversation with. My advice is that if you find yourself on the opposing side of a "screaming heads" match, you need to go find a better class of ideological sparring partners. No matter who does the screaming, it tends to be a last resort for folks who have run out of real arguments.

 

But don't kid yourselves- zealotry is simply not the exclusive domain of any ideological group.

 

And if you can't help but engage in the shouting match with friends/family then maybe stay clear of those topics, if you value your friendship and kinship ties!

 

 

[BrentAllen]

SR540Beaver wrote: "Any scarier than what happened 6 of the last 8 years with Bush and a Republican House and Senate? God help us!!!"

 

Did you watch that second video? The Republicans were trying to reign in Freddie and Fannie, but were shot down, even when they had a majority in the House and Senate. If you watched the video, you saw they were accused of "lynching" Frank Raines, of being racists. They can't win for losing! And now Pelosi blames it all on Bush's policies - that is too rich! With Dems in control of everything, who is going to guard the hen house?

 

The Republicans blew it when they had full control. What is that saying - power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. I am quickly becoming a fan of split control. I'm also becoming a fan of term limits.

[BrentAllen]

"I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors," Barack Obama told a crowd in Elko, Nev. "I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face."

Marching orders from the top.

[Gold Winger]

"Guess you don't watch Hannity much, do you? Perhaps he is the one in ten."

 

Who?

[NJCubScouter]

So Brent, what's the point of that first video? That some Democrats can be as rude and obnoxious as some Republicans? I knew that already.

 

And besides, I am not sure that video shows what the "producer" says it shows. I hear a lot of yelling, but can barely make out what anyone is saying. I gave up about two-thirds of the way in, but up to that point I heard the name "Obama" maybe once. The yellers could be voting Green or Socialist or even Libertarian for all I know. Half the people "giving the finger" seemed to be waving it at the cameraman, not the McCainites.

 

I'm not sure that a video that would barely get a D for a high school project is really one that you want to use to make a political point.(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[BrentAllen]

Must be your monitor and speakers. If you had viewed it all, you would have certainly heard several "Obama" chants, especially in front of the restaurant. It made my point.

[Lisabob]

I don't think the quality of the video is necessarily the focal point. In some of the videos where death threats are made against Obama (at McC rallies) the sound quality also isn't the best.

 

The bigger point is that neither party ought to be acting in ways that encourage the nutjobs to feel like it is ok to act openly nutty and dangerous. And last week that happened more than a few times on the Republican side, beyond the normal push and shove of politics to the level of calling someone a traitor and issuing death threats (that crosses the line in my view, and apparently in the Secret Service's view). Now I will agree that McCain seems to have taken some steps toward toning things down (though he still plays the same outrageous ads). And I'm not saying it is ok for people on the other side to act the same way. But I haven't yet heard the other side responding with threats of violence, either. What I have heard is rude and vulgar behavior. I don't want to condone that but it simply does not sink to the same level as stuff people were yelling about Obama last week. I would have thought that people who support the Republican campaign would be just as outraged to see their candidates veering off into such horrendous territory too, rather than attempting to deny or defend it as has occurred in some cases.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

So it comes down to a matter of its ok if my side sucks a little because the other side sucks more?(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

[scoutingagain]

Well yes. For those of us in the moderate middle of the political spectrum, it comes down the the candidate & party that seems to suck the least at the moment. At least it has for the last 2 Presidential elections.

 

SA

[OldGreyEagle]

SA, I feel your pain

 

I was talking more about Republicans who say, yeah our VP candidate is having an baby out of wedlock, but heck, Obama wants to deny babies who have survived an abortion care.

 

I am talking about Democrats who say yeah, it was Bush's policies that caused the current financial mess without regard to the Clinton Administrations part and not commenting on what Peosi and Reid have done since they were in their positions

[SR540Beaver]

Gold Winger, "Who?"

 

Sean Hannity, the number two talk radio host in the nation right behind Rush. All he asks is that you listen 3 hours a day, 5 days a week so he can Hannitize your vote. Well that and 1 hour a night on Fox News for Hannity and Colmes and 1 hour on Sunday for Hannity's America on Fox News and to attend his Freedom Concerts and read his multiple books. The Ayres thing you are hearing coming out of Palin and now McCain is from him pushing the issue daily for the past year. He has actually attained the ability to shape the talking points of the Republican candidates. Scary!

[Beavah]

Yah, I agree with many here that a lot of folks who purport to be "liberal" are some of da most obnoxious when it comes to tryin' to shout down or belittle other viewpoints. Legacy of the behavior of the 1960s, I expect. Some colleges and universities make expressing conservative viewpoints very uncomfortable for untenured faculty or students, eh? Or at least they have in the past.

 

I think honor demands that we look first to ourselves and our own party, though, eh? So I'll trust those folks who are truly liberal to address their raving nutjobs. They'll never listen to me anyways.

 

So let me talk about da folks who share my conservative leanings instead. There's a value to protecting process. Whether it's respectin' and defending the Constitution of the United States, or honoring the competence and service of federal attorneys, EPA scientists, State Department officials, or the internal rules of da house and senate. We have laws and conventions for a reason, eh? It's because we have mutual respect for the opposition. The opposition are our fellow Americans. The opposition are not the enemy.

 

I think da worst legacy of the current administration has been its willingness to portray da opposition as the enemy, eh? And to be willing to dismantle a long, hard-assembled set of laws and conventional behaviors which defined how we behave even in the face of opposition. Because if da opposition really is the enemy, then the game is to win at all costs, eh? But if the opposition is just our fellow Americans who disagree, then the game is to protect them and their rights. Because some day, we might be the opposition.

 

So we dismantled Glass-Steagall and da regulatory mechanisms which would have prevented the creation of the financial derivatives that caused this mess. Why? Because bankers were our friends, and da other side was the enemy. That was Phil Gramm, eh? Our fault, our mistake. Foolishness by us Republicans. Probably corruption, too, given who was givin' Phil lots of money. Yeh think we would have learned after Keating and da Savings and Loan debacle. Too many "C" students in history on our side. I don't think we can criticize the Clintonites for their makin' a mess of Freddie and Fannie unless we're honorable enough to admit our own failings. And it certainly wasn't the Democrats who became the party of borrow-and-spend deficit economics.

 

Our guys. Our fault. People I voted for and supported. Federalization of the National Guard, abuse of da tempo of military operations that has hurt our servicemen and women, a bungled occupation of Iraq and a botched mission in Afghanistan. Warrantless wiretapping and illegal detentions and torture. Sacking competent, patriotic federal attorneys for political gain. Signing statements declaring an intent not to follow da law. Attempts to rewrite the senate rules to our own favor. Our guys. Our fault. People I voted for and supported.

 

I can say things about all da dumb stuff the Democrats and liberals have done, eh? They are legion! But honor requires me to first address da log in my own eye, before I try to remove da mote from my brother's.

 

My brother's, eh? Not my enemy's.

 

The current spate of negative campaign ads and Obama is a terrorist screed is simply despicable. As a conservative and a lifelong Republican voter, I'm disgusted. Barack Obama is a fellow American and a patriot. I don't agree with all of his positions nor with his voting record, but to call him anything other than a fellow American and a patriot for political gain is to be da worst sort of liar.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[SR540Beaver]

Well said Beavah. I'm always glad to see a fellow old school conservative make the effort to get out of the rocker and climb on the soap box. My hope is that the old school can return after the current admin rides into the sunset.