V-P debate

[Apache Bob]

Well the VP debate just started on TV.

Does it really matter in the election or was it just the networks looking for rating that made it seem so important?

[moxieman]

Well, a lot of folks seem to forget that the VP is only a heartbeat away from being the Prez. Either if the Prez drops dead (examples: FDR and William Henry Harrison) or is killed (JFK, McKinley, Lincoln...)

 

So, it could be important as they could be prez at anytime after the next prez takes office.

 

I recall the common joke back during elder Bush's presidency that he chose Quayle for his VP to ensure he'd survive his term in office 'cause no one would want Quayle to take over.

[packsaddle]

It's over. Palin mopped the floor with him. But is it a Republican thing, the inability to pronounce the word, 'nuclear'? Or is it really supposed to sound like 'new cooler'?

[John-in-KC]

I spent the evening at District Roundtable with a 150 Scouting friends. I think serving the Scouters who serve the youth was a good use of my time

 

No Kabuki Theater for me, thank you. And yes, I am locked in to McCain-Palin for this cycle.

 

Now if we could just get someone to re-enact Glass-Steagall, hold a bank holiday, and put some backbone in the US economy, instead of holding a 700 thousand million dollar fire sale.

[Lisabob]

Well Palin didn't collapse into an incoherent heap and Biden didn't have a bout of foot-in-mouth disease. So much for drama

 

Seriously, just being able to answer questions (more or less) was probably enough to be considered a victory of sorts for Palin. Some of her answers were a bit odd, inconsistent with her party's stance, and even a little worrisome (more power for the Veep in the Senate?? Really a good idea after 8 years of Cheney's power-mongering??). She clearly lacks the depth that Biden has, I don't think she made a strong enough case against the Democratic ticket, and she didn't win me over by any stretch. I still think she's vastly unqualified. But it wasn't the disaster it might have been for her personally and that alone ought to result in a modest boost for McCain's chances.

 

On another note, I hear McC has abandoned his attempts to win MI as of today. Bad move on his part, except that it seems he's now fighting to hold onto the typical Republican advantage in so many other states (VA, NC, CO, NV, IN, OH). Having lived in IN for some time I'll just say that I can hardly imagine a more "red" state (with a couple local exceptions) so if IN is truly up for grabs, McCain is still in a whole lot of trouble.

[Ohio_Scouter]

Yeah, I noticed that, pack, but I don't think it's strictly a Republican thing. The first time I heard the word "nuk-u-ler" was about 30 years ago from Jimmy Carter, our first nuk-u-ler engineer president.

[vol_scouter]

Sarah Palin had a difficult job. She had to defend John McCain's long record in the face of someone who has been in the Senate much longer than McCain. Biden has lived that history while Governor Palin had to learn about it. Biden had to defend a short and undistinguished Senate record of Obama (who has yet to have sponsored a major piece of legislation and has spent much of his time in the Senate running for president). So Biden had a considerable advantage because he has been there for the votes involving the 3 Senators.

 

As to qualifications, Obama asks us to trust that he has good judgement because he has little experience. Governor Palin is the same except she does have executive experience.

 

Furthermore, even though she is well qualified and a politician, she has only been running for the office for five weeks not the years for the other candidates. If she had been doing this for 18 months, I suspect that she would have been even more decisive. Her life experiences come closer to matching the rest of us than any other candidate in the race. In fact, I think that both Biden and Governor Palin would be better candidates for president than the 2 actually running.

[OldGreyEagle]

I think the whole process needs a facelift. This was no debate and to call it such demeans the Debate Club of every high school in the US. It was an opportunity for two marrionettes to espouse party lines at all times.

 

A debate is when a position is taken, that position is attacked by the other side and then the position is defended. I didnt see any of that.

 

It still comes down to a Democrat who says Washington is broken and needs to be fixed and the guy who will help me fix it has 35 years working in a broken system

 

The Republican says my opponent is way too inexperienced to change what needs to be changed and the person who will help me change things is somebody who has less experience than my opponent

 

Biden talked about how much gas costs, what would gas cost if we had drilled domestically? Biden says it would ten years to get a drop of new gas to market. Well, 10 years will pass, then what do we do?

 

Palin? For all her smiles and cute hair, I am not sure she said a thing she hadn't rehearsed 100 times. Bidden kept talking about how McCain voted against funding the soldiers in Iraq. Palin mentioned it was becasue the funding bill has a dealine for withdrawl in it. She should have expounded on it and driven that home, instead she juet repeated it like a sheep with no brain

 

Color me in despair(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

[gwd-scouter]

Hate to disagree with you there Pack, but I would say the debate was at best a tie. I think Palin surpassed the rather low expectations of her performance. But, in the end, she did not say anything to my ears that would lessen my unease about her being our next VP, much less lessening my outright fear that she could be a "heartbeat away" from the Presidency. I know a lot of people are happy she's just like "regular folks," but I don't want someone running our country who is like regular folks. I wouldn't vote for me to run the country!

[packsaddle]

gwd, you're taking me way too seriously.

OGE, your comment about 'debates' has been true for every one of these spectacles as long as I've been able to watch them on television. However, for every person like you or me, who can appreciate the quick, nimble mind it takes to respond and defend ideas on the run,...how many of our fellow Americans would merely be lost or confused by that kind of give and take? I'm not passing judgement here. I'm saying that I think the media HAVE made that kind of judgement and it isn't very charitable toward the public. And we, the public, by watching this stuff, support it.

 

Edited part: Drat thsoe tpyos.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Trevorum]

No gaffes on either side. But I think she makes Dan Quayle look like a seasoned statesman.

 

[gwd-scouter]

Yeah, Pack. As we discussed before - I'm much too gullible!

[NJCubScouter]

It was interesting to see that the moderator of this debate did not have the candidates interact directly with each other and ask each other questions, as the moderator of the first Obama-McCain debate did. I suspect that the Republican campaign (or maybe both campaigns, but I doubt it) made it clear to the debate commission that they did not want that happening in last night's debate. I can understand why. As others have said, Palin was totally on-script and well-rehearsed. She ignored questions she didn't want to answer and turned them into the questions she was prepared to answer. Now, in fairness, Biden did the same thing on occasion, Obama and McCain each did it a couple times, and probably it has happened on both sides in almost every presidential/vice presidential debate I have ever seen. However, I have never seen a candidate do it anywhere near as often, or as blatantly, as Palin did. She even made a little issue out of it, when she told the moderator something like, I am not going to answer the questions that you want to hear. In other words, she was going to answer the questions that she wanted to answer, not the questions that were asked.

 

In the end, the debates on their own are not important; it all gets thrown into the mix of how people decide who to vote for. While Palin appealed to the "Republican base" (and no doubt quieted the murmurings of some conservative pundits that maybe she needed to be replaced on the ticket), I cannot imagine that she won over many undecided voters, while I think Biden may have. The "insta-polls" do suggest that more people think Biden won the debate than Palin. Having said that, I was somewhat disappointed in Biden, as some of his answers did ramble around a little bit, and a couple times he tried to cram too much information into an answer and then didn't say things as directly as he should have, so I kind of needed a scorecard to figure out where he was going.

 

And by the way, I did catch one "gaffe" that Biden made, or at least if the Republicans picked up on it, they would make a big deal out of it. I just read the transcript online, and he did say what I thought he said. However, I have not heard about it as an "issue", so I think I will wait until I do, or until the election (whichever comes first) before saying what it is. The Internet is watching.

[Gold Winger]

"It still comes down to a Democrat who says Washington is broken and needs to be fixed and the guy who will help me fix it has 35 years working in a broken system"

 

One could say that the "guy" has been part of the problem for 35 years.

 

 

 

[scoutingagain]

I'll go with the consensus here. Palin exceeded the minimal expectations and probably saved her polital future. I doubt she did much for the current campaign though. Biden did a little better I thought. But I continue to find it annoying when candidates don't answer the question and then ramble on about a different topic. All of them do it and I find I want to hear the answer to the question not, "That's an interesting question but let's talk about energy, taxes, the war, or any other topic other than the question because I don't have an answer the public wants to hear."

 

I will give Palin credit, at least she flat out told us she would talk about what she wanted to talk about and didn't care about the questions.

 

The one policy issue I had with Palin and I wish the moderator had followed up, was when she said she didn't believe mankind was responsible for global warming. (Which is not consistent with McCain's position.) But she would support controls on carbon emmisions. That just doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

SA