Religion/Sexuality

[sherminator505]

Actually, ev, this has changed quite a bit since I first became a Scout (in the early 1980's). We now have women eligible for any leadership and have full participation of older girls in Venturing. I think that difference here is that the girls have historically had their own organization and have shown no desire thus far to merge it with ours. What we are talking about here is something that really came into focus in the 1990's when it became a point of emphasis because of lawsuits.

 

As I have stated previously, my problem is not with the policy but the attitudes that generated them. IMHO this is no different than the conversations we had last century over voting rights and civil rights.

[skeptic]

While I have no specific proof, I have been led to believe that BSA has suggested a merger with GS a couple of times, but been rebuffed by the national organization. In our area, there have been a number of GS troops that would have gladly joined with a same age BS group if they could. That also goes for the girls in the 11-14 age group; they would join BS if they were allowed, but have no interest in the GS because, for the most part, it is too focused on home and craft stuff.

 

Personally, as long as you have the male/female leadership needed, I would not see it as a problem. I know the two or three times we have camped in proximity to GS groups over the years and had interaction with a campfire and so on the boys were far better behaved, and the girls were not intimidated nearly as much as the boys.

 

 

[evmori]

As I have stated previously, my problem is not with the policy but the attitudes that generated them.

 

What attitude are you speaking if? The attitude that feel men who like to have sex with other men should not be Scout leaders?

 

IMHO this is no different than the conversations we had last century over voting rights and civil rights.

 

Big difference. Homosexuality is a choice. Race & gender aren't.

[GernBlansten]

Ed, how old were you when you chose to be heterosexual?

[evmori]

I'm not sure Gern. I think around 12 or 13. What about you?

[FScouter]

So Ed, tell us about your thought process as you contemplated your choice?

 

Hmmm... I cannot recall having made a choice. It just happened.

 

Anybody else make a choice?

[evmori]

My thought process was simple. I really liked girls! They smelled really good & were pretty! Still do and still are!

[Narraticong]

If my beloved BSA were to ever merge with GSUSA, I am afraid I would leave the organization. Whether others agree or not, my opinion is that boys benefit greatly from being in the company of male role models. In my little troop alone, there are quite a few boys with no male role model in their family, or at least not a good one. I won't claim the adult leaders in our troop are perfect. But we all recognize our shortcomings and often use them as teaching points for the boys. The boys see my struggle with weight and begin to understand why it is important to stay "physically fit".

 

Mixing boys and girls would cause any number of difficulties, especially those brought about by teenage hormones. Just watch your older Scouts checking out the Venturing age female mebers of your camp staff.

 

I don't care if Scouting is coed in other countries. Many of those organizations do not have the same aims as BSA has had over most of the past century. How many of their Scouts have flown in space? How many have become the leader of their national government?

 

Baden Powell and then Bill Hillcourt had the program right the first time. It wasn't until turned away from our roots that things went downhill.

 

No, let GSUSA run their own program as they see fit. Venturing is a good program for those interested in it. Keep it and grow it. But we need to start turning BSA back to our roots.

 

Ken

[GernBlansten]

Ed, I think it happened shortly after I chose to be right handed.

[mbrownkc7]

I love this stuff.

 

Right, Left, Right, Left.

 

You are up Right.

 

This is better than a tennis match. Please keep it going Ed.

 

 

[Mr. Boyce]

Here's an interesting item.

 

http://www.narth.com/docs/pieces.html

 

If you want to attack it, attack the argument being made, not the author.

 

In my book, this is very new, very unexplored psychological (as well as political) territory, and the BSA's policy is a very temperate one, given all the uncertainties and dangers.

 

I'd chip in, too, that there is a value for boys in learning to form adult relationships with non-family men---you can ignore what your Dad tells you (he views you as a kid and treats you like a kid), but it's a real learning experience when you're treated more equally. I think also that men old enough to be coaches or scoutmasters are also at a point in their lives in which they want to give back, and also a point in which their expertise as an area begins to naturally develop into a teaching mode.

[evmori]

You musta gone to Catholic grade school, Gern, where everyone was right handed when they left regardless of what hand they used when they started!

[packsaddle]

"I'd chip in, too, that there is a value for boys in learning to form adult relationships with non-family men..."

There is risk here too. During my youth, 'non-family men' were the ones who taught me racial hatred, use of tobacco and drugs, unhealthy views on sex, ways to commit crimes, and subjugation of women. It was my father who provided the role model that gave me some perspective on these life-views and religious beliefs.

 

I made the choice about the same time I decided to have two ears.

[Hal_Crawford]

Where is the data? Where is the science to support his arguments? A well written narrative to be sure but lacking any scientific support it is just one man's opinion. For instance, how do we know that "Psychotherapeutic intervention at this point and earlier can be successful in preventing the development of later homosexuality"? He doesn't present any evidence to support this claim.

 

Perhaps he presents data and sources in the book from which this was excerpted but based on what is published here there is nothing to support or refute.

 

What do we know of the author and his expertise? We know his name and that he has an M.D. degree. What is his specialty?

 

Back in the late sixties/early seventies there was a very famous sex book published by a man with an MD after his name. The author billed himself as a psychiatrist but had never taken advanced study or residency in psychiatry.

 

By the laws in his state at that time an MD did not have to have any special training to practice psychiatry. The author also lacked any particular credentials in sexual health. It was alleged at the time that many of the helpful tips presented in his question and answer format were not only wrong but in some cases dangerous.

 

The author did not if I recall address homosexuality but I bring up this story merely to illustrate that an MD by itself does not necessarily connote expertise. For all we know, Dr. Satinover might be a dermatologist, podiatrist, radiologist or pathologist. All noble and important callings but they do not necessarily provide any insight into the fields of psychiatry, genetics or sexuality.

 

Lacking any data, sources or evidence that Dr. Satinover is even qualified to address this subject, I have to write this article off as irrelevant to the scientific discourse on sexual preference.

 

Hal

[Trevorum]

For a while I contemplated becoming homosexual. But then I realized I had terrible fashion sense. Besides, the constant bigotry and threat of violence was a real deal-breaker.

 

I'm very glad I decided to have O+ blood type though.